Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
I got 2 emails over the last few days from people I know since many years. Both had the same question.
Can I give them an open fair opinion on what NIRS equipment they should buy. They specially asked for my opinion of three NIRS equipment. Portamon, MOXY , BSX. Now my favorite NIRS is still Portamon as I can do many incredible ideas with it. So no question about that. If I look form my rehab point of view or from a point of view of many coaches and centers I know than I have to look as well from a business point of view. Here a very simple example I just had yesterday. We do some simple high school research groups and yesterday we tested 16 students respectively did 16 workouts. Now here the simple situation. I have 1 hour time for PE . So I have either 16 moxy's or one portamon or 16 BSX ( if I look for run or bike information.) If I look for activity information the BSX is not usable for live nor for daily use in different activities. I can workout with 16 students at the same time all individually guided over NIRS or I can do for the same amount of Money 1. What do you prefer. ? Second. This 16 students will get assessed ,so I have 8 students having 2 MOXY;s on the body and have immediately the information I look for individual intensity profiles. and I can do all 16 in 1 hour as I have 30 min for 8. For the same money investment I can do one student on one muscle in 30 minutes with one portamon. same investment. What do you prefer ? True there are some information's I may not have with MOXY , I have with portamon so for in depth research get 2 Portamons or you can get 32 Moxy's and have much more muscles involved. 2. With MOXY and peripedal I can have a big screen in the center and can have 8 students on one screen looking at the reactions for their workout like a squatting set or line sprints or what ever you like to do. I test on a weekend for the moment runners or cyclists. so I can take 5 cyclists ( that's all the space I have ( I could take more if more space) bringing their own wattage trainer in, we test all at the same time 2 MOXY's on each and I have a 5/1/5 idea. Time . 60 min. for 5 athletes. another 60 min for the results to be printed out and a training idea suggestion with it. So 5 test 2 hours 250 $ per test. = ???? / hour You make the calculation. For me there is no brainer for a decent size center or a coach what do buy this days if money is tight. Start with 2 MOXY's and that's it. Forget lactate , VO2 and what ever you can get in cycling. Get a good wattage system and 2 MOXY's and you are ready to assess and even use it for workouts. I have some local athletes they rent the MOXY for a workout including discussion after the fact for 50 $ and they love it.If they like to use it just as a feedback they pick it up and pay 10 $. BUT after 1 assessment and 2 - 3 times rent they actually buy a MOXY including a Garmin watch and learn how to do this on their own and just come in for training advice and to discuss the result as they learn and go ahead. BSX. Interesting equipment and it is a NIRS based system. My problem: Why do I need as a coach for each athlete one system and can not use one on different athletes. 2. My problem. I do much more assessment in many different activities and not just biking and running, but cross country skiing strength workouts, roller blading , rowing ,game sports like ice hockey and so on. . Can I use it ???? . And if I can use it in an ice hockey team each player has to buy one or I have to buy for a team of 22 ,22 BSX and can only use it on one player on the bike or in running. 490 $ x 22 + ? = how many MOXYs for how many different people in how many different sports for daily use, versus an assessment about every 6 weeks.? You make the judgment. . Summary. All three tools are incredible steps forward in a new direction in physiological testing. All have advantages and disadvantages. At the end of the day money is an important factors to make a decision. The ch cheapest solution for the moment is clearly MOXY for coaches and centers and even individual athletes. Last but not least and I hate this question. Can I use MOXY to find my lactate threshold ????. It is a NIRS equipment. , so if you believe you need to find the LT and you than after you found the LT use a calculator to calculate Zones based on this one point yes for sure you can do that. BSX is a NIRS . Portamon is a NIRS MOXY is a NIRS and you can find the "LT" by looking at SmO2 or HHb or O2Hb or tHb. Here an example. a three minute step test you can find the SMO2 " threshold and this is the "LT " if you like it. But when adding tHB you can see, what created the drop in SmO2 at a very specific point. What is his potential limitation.. If you like to see the " right shift " of the non existing lactate curve you can use NIRS as well as when you overlap the " SMO2 threshold point will shift to the right as well if you are lucky.
Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
uups got a fast respond on the discussion of existing or not existing lactate curve.
I am not able to get into the discussion on that anymore. I have re read and learn from people having a much better understanding on that and a much more critical look. After 40 years of discussion on this I like to move forward to the next very interesting topic. Direct feedback of energy trend during exercises. NIRS is one possible affordable tool. So my simple question to myself was : Why would I look on a direct feedback energy supply ( O2 ), than I see that live and now I would go back 40 years and use lactate as a clearly indirect feedback on something we at that time could not test but now we can and " abuse " a step forward NIRS to force it backwards just to be able to defend my old ideas on lactate threshold or lactate balance point as I am feeling bad if I have to go back to my patients and athletes to tell them that lactate balance point or the 25 different LT concepts are now no used anymore. What is the problem to adjust to some interesting most likely nice to be used concepts. It is all about energy use delivery and utilization. The old idea of using the lactate PRO was to find somehow a nice way to see,when a performance may need some help from both the O2 dependent and independent energy supply , which anyway always work together so the delivery question comes up when and why do I start to limit O2 delivery to the working muscles. If that is the case I will use different options to try to " survive " or compensate. One of them is to increase if possible the buffer ability of H + as long as possible and one indirect marker is lactate.. But with NIRS i do not have to speculate as i can see it now as live as it can get. Depending on the limitation as so many times mentioned, we may see a compensation from lactate to increase buffer and the compensation is successful so lactate goes up but performance keeps going as I successfully use lactate ( plus other options ) to keep intracellular the H + in balance. ) now I have an increase in lactate but not an actual " threshold "as of yet. . This and other reasons create situations., where lactate and nIRS go very different. Here just without explanation some pictures from hundred, if not thousands we did. This was used at the start of our NIRS adventure , where we where desperate to show, that NIRS can be used to find a LT. We failed , which does not mean we are right and others may proof us wrong as so often it is done many ideas. Below some just pictures no explanation as the picture and NIRS trends are self explanations really on the different options we can see depending on the limitation and or the compensation. Red in NIRS " language" is O2Hb ( oxygenated Hb) Blue is HHb ( deoxygenated Hb ) in this pic yellow is tHb ( O2Hb plus HHb) we use brown in MOXY info as we often have in prints a white back ground so yellow is hard to be seen. purple here is Hb difference and green is TSI % The green number is TSI % as a number. You can see three step test where the limiters where three different reasons and you can see three times very different trends with some looking great if we try to find a " threshold  or break point and some looking very different and hard to find a similar ideas to find a break point or " threshold" There will be always a certain amount if we do hundreds of test, where some specific trend may show up more often. I think but that' is just me, that over all this years the most common clear picture was, when the limiter was respiration than we have a most common picture when looking at SmO2 and tHb . Problem. Many people do not think , that respiration is ever a limitation so this is hard than to discuss.