Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 3 of 3      Prev   1   2   3
Ruud_G

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 279
 #31 
Blue line (plateau) depicted as CO plateaus => HR goes up / SV goes down
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #32 
Ruud  help.  Blue line  : do you mean  form the NIRS  graph. Blue  would be there  HHb  and red as usual  O2Hb  green  on that one is tHb.
  So   when we look Plateau  in CO    you would look at the  Physio flow data.
 Now    for people  who have a color  blindness  I am not sure (  this is  NOT a  making fun of) as I learned  from Ruud  that we have to somehow adjust the colors.
 So  it  could be that the green  from the CO  on the physioflow  may show  up as blue.
 So Ruud  help  and if  possible  help once more, what  color   would be easier to be used  for this cases. Thanks  so much . Juerg
Ruud_G

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 279
 #33 
Haha. I completely go wrong with those colours and graphs haha. I look at the wrong things / graphs / lines haha. Green, brown, red are difficult yes. But don't worry about me haha. I am maybe the only one on this forum with these problems [smile]
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #34 
 ha ha  Ruud  you  owe me  a pair of this wodden ducth  shoes.png    now.
Ruud_G

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 279
 #35 
Not bad Juerg. You must have those for your goat barn already haha.
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #36 
Daniele  , before you show me how  confused  I am,  I  come back to your original case as we  as usual ( as I  as usual )  got lost  again. we have  some points left in that case.
hB
dan original case disc.jpg


 Point 3.1  and red 4.  Don't' ask  me  why this numbers   just  randomly.
First 4  steps  or  first 2  double loads.

SmO2. Cook book  initial drop of  SmO2  . Low  delivery as   start from rest . low  CO low  VE.So  higher utilization than delivery
 Lag time  and about 3 min in  we see SmO2  increase   as a sign now  of a higher delivery  than  utilization.
 Interesting is the drop in tHb as a  indication of a  higher muscle compression  outstripping the CO pressure  in the  second load . Than in the second double load relative  stable SmO2  value  and  a  trend in increase in tHb in the second load  second  double load as an indication of a higher CO now  trying to  compete  with muscle contraction compression. Now green circle  first  load  3tr  step. The increase in load  immediately shows up as a  drop in tHb  from increased  muscle compression and as well an immediate   much higher demand of  O2  utilization. The demand is  so much higher, that the delivery  can't   keep up resulting in a   clear  drop in SmO2  basically over the full set length with perhaps  the last 30 seconds  a  small indication that now  the delivery system  try to  again keep up to the demand.
 Now  here  what we see.
 The   sever  drop in SmO2  would indicate a  close  end of the performance in any case  we see that  as utilization outstrips  by far  delivery.
 The only  way we  could  sustain a another   same load is  if we find a compensation  for the  lack of  delivery by  the delivery system.
 The main delivery system is the cardiac system  and if  CO  can go up  it may  outweigh  the muscle compression and therefor  we have a higher  deliver  tHb  has to go up.
 And if that delivered  blood  is able to contain  enough O2  so good respiratory system to  still balance CO2  and therefor H +  we  than as we deliver  more should see a  slowing down  or reveres   the sever  SmO2  drop  as now  delivery  can keep up  with demand. Look  this  and the beauty is , that it happens  by the exactly same load wattage. Which is interesting as we can see that the same load  is really delivered  by a very different physiological  reaction. So in the first  load  we  would have very different stimulation. We  would if that is the case  stimulate a utilization  situation with a relative weak  delivery    situation  so  we would  activate  the idea  on how to  de load  more O2  as we have  an insufficient  delivery.
 This would be  the  functional  situation. The structural outcome later may be  an improvement of  delivery  to   support the overloaded  utilization. On the other hand  by the same  wattage we  can see a increase in tHb  to  support the  too high utilization  and ass  such see a functional reaction here just in front of our eyes. A  functional stress if  the right intensity  can immediately stimulate a reaction which  will show us, whether we  have the structural support  to sustain this  functional   stimulation. If  so as we can see here we  can go up I intensity  and see, how  we now  react a  structural reaction. Now  you can see, that what this athlete is doing. Indicating a very nice   cardiac  situation for the moment  and the ability to use  cardiac  system as a compensator. Summary : He  has a very well developed overall situation  with no extreme  limitation  but an overall balanced  system. Good delivery   CO  good  increase in tHb  due to good CO  and tHb  only can ho that nice up  if he  has the capillarisation which he  shows. Than great  utilization  as he  can  drop SmO2  fast  and  to a  nice level..

 So in this case   for the racing season we would look  at now functional  workouts  And in the long run which as well, starts  now   for an increase in  further capillarisation and mitochondria density  and this till we see that the delivery now is  a limitation , which than switches the training  towards improvement of delivery .As well the  next limitation could be respiration  as  at the moment he improves  functionally  utilization he will be confronted  with a higher H +  and CO2  situation so  good to have a  great  inspiratory  and expiratory   help.  Now this is as well the timing  to review   bike position  due to the progress he may have made in  all the  systems but as well he may have changed  his flexibility.
 Last but not least  functional improvement of bike efficiency  by learning  and show  how  he  can switch loads from different muscles of the leg  to other muscles  but still maintain the same wattage if it is in the STEI  intensity.

DanieleM

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 264
 #37 
Juerg, thanks I will read carefully later.
One thing, this assessment was a 5/1 so single step increase 30W. I wrote it in the first post.
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #38 
Danielle  Thanks  for the correction  and yes    that  is fun to look at re   discuss, if  it is  or was a 5  min step test  and 1 min rest. The  physiological reactions will be the same  reasoning but it will be  even more interesting to see  again closer  why  we have sometimes a  stable SmO2  despite now in this  case  changing wattage  and    the   compensation    at the   next  higher load  after a  severe initial drop in SmO2. I will  check back as I have    actual TIP  5/1/5  test  who look very similar  and where  we have this  drop in the same load intensity. Will go though my mess  and search for it and     will show it as soon I have one. Cheers.
  ohh I may  have one we  actually just discuss  let's see.
2 test overlap jan march.jpg

 Dark green are  5  complete  double  steps  and  light green  are
as it looks  as well 5  double  steps  and one  more   additional new higher load .Look  at  dark green  3rd  double step  as the first  load   has a very different SmO2  dynamic  than the same wattage loadd  after the  1 min rest. Than  at the end  5  th  step a similar reaction as in the 5  min step  from your client  just here it is the same load  and in your case  it is  even more extreme  as  you  load even higher ,but stop the severe  drop in SmO2  as a great compensation. Difference  here it is  at the end  so little  option for  a long and effective compensation  or limitation.  In your case int is in the middle resp. in the STEI  intensity  area  so absolutely  easy  for a compensator  to help a limiter.
 Where as in PW's case it may be  not   the reaction of a compensator but actually the picture of a limitation ( utilization limitation   ???

DanieleM

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 264
 #39 
Juerg, one last point about this case study.
You previously mentioned about possible muscular strenght limitation.
Below the last 3 loads, which may confirm this possibility.
lk_last3.png 


Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #40 
Yes  I was  thinking that  too but I ma not  sure. If  it is a  real strength limitation  based on ideas of Rhomert  we discuss  many times, than we  would expect a venous occlusion trend  but we do not see a real nice  occlusion situation as we miss the outflow. What we see is as we see often an up and down  of tHB in a relative  fixed  pattern  of  +-  30 seconds  duration  which is a  BP reaction indication.  But as well a  " restless  activity in this muscle.
. I would do a RIP   so you see, whether he  in an all out  load  actually is able to reach  with this muscle a venous occlusion trend. In a RIP  you may push double the wattage  and if we  do to see an occlusion trend , than we  may have  to   rethink muscular weakness but as well it   will be fun next time if you do a TIP  to put MOXY on the delta  and see, whether we have a   trend  towards  an indication of a systemic  limitation rather  a local  limitation.
Thanks for this interesting case  study .
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.

HTML hit counter - Quick-counter.net