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Marcel

Development Team Member
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Posts: 54
 #1 

Hi, I need a bit of help here with finding the limiter as I am rather confused with two pictures from the same athlete who is a cross country skier.

So first picture, athlete was not well rested before the start of this session, he's coach wanted him to do a 8min level 3 session up a long hill of which he managed 4 sets before bonking. Rest periods are not all the same, some he stood around, some he continued to ski.  After his last set where he was totaly wasted he continued up the hill at a snails pace stopping every few minutes  which can be seen by the little spike towards the end. Lets call this pic hitting the limit. 
scott dixon 14 oct 15.jpg 

Below is from two days later doing a modified 5/1/5 assessment due to the terrain. I felt his zones that was given to him was too high so made him ski even slower than his level one which is marked as skiing on flat v easy. Then onto what he thought his calculated level one was with 3x at this intensity (one set was about 10 min long due to terrain. Set two was his usual level 2 with 3x at level 2 with 1 min break. From then on it was the usual double step assessment, set 5 he could only complete 1 step.
scott thb2.jpg Below is the same as above but with heart rate, smo2, oxy and deoxy.  scott hr .jpg 
So here is my take on the above, and I think I am seeing multiple limitations. Looking blindly at the hitting the limit picture first pic. He was was on a moderately hard session but due to him being tired potential showed his limiter much clearly than when he was rested. He is able to desaturate but only up to a point. So a moderately developed utilization system. Looking at only the thb. The more he pushes the more the blood flow drops and remains low, even after he has finished his last rep of 8min his Smo2 and thb does not recover, thb does not recover at all. I see this as a cardiac delivery limitation. He does have a very high heart rate even resting so his CCT theoretically could also be sky high.  I think also coupled with how quickly his Smo2 drops and that it stays down that there is a compression issue (muscle strength/tension).

Now looking at the modified 5/1/5 his smo2 has a similar pattern to when he is tired. Moderatly developed utilisation. His Smo2 does recover this time much better than when he was tired but still not enough for how easy he was skiing. thb now this is what is confusing me especially compared to the first picture, as thb seems to be good, delivery does not seem to be a problem here. I can not really make any sense of this compared to pic one.

Blood saturation stayed stable around 98% all the way through upto the last rep where it suddenly dropped to 86%!! I thought this was a error, once he was back at the car and had stood around for a while I took another reading and it was 93% so it could be right.

Last pic looking at oxy and deoxy: During his first easy step he is using more than can be delivered, alarm phase? Then second step he is 'warmed up' and delivery is more than he was using in his very easy skiing and then after this step never again except during the 1min recovery up to the 6th 1 min recovery he was able to recover getting delivery above utilisation. Which give some recovery and warmup guidance when he'd does do intervals in this intensity. 

What do you see in the above and please help me out with the thb in the 5/1/5 compared to pic one.

 
Attached Files
csv 14_oct_15_scott_dixon.csv (124.49 KB, 12 views)
csv 16_oct_15_scot_fact.csv (99.82 KB, 14 views)

juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #2 
Marcel  super interesting  case  and I will get into  depth on this  from  my point of  view. 
  First like to  add some   information  for regular readers.  Marcel  is one of the fist  if not the first  world  wide, who  did  field test  on  roller skies  combining  VO2  equipment  with Physio flow  and NIRS  ( Portamon) on the street with a  guy  (  helicopter pilot )  form Abu Dhabi   Mr. Duncan Clark )  Marcel  may even  have some  pictures.
 So  when ever   people read  accepted paper  claiming  this is the first time  and so on,  always keep in mind that there may be a  small group  and some  crazy people out there who have done it  just for the purpose  of research  without the need  to be mentioned.
 In practical    applications and    n the  real   world  there are many   people out  there  trying out interesting ideas  to just please their own  hunger for  more information.
Marcel is one of this  super interesting  and  great  people.

 2.  The  data  from Marcel's  case  show the fundamental difference between  what we  try to  achieve   when planning workouts , meaning looking  for physiological  ideas and targets , versus the  accepted d  classical idea, where  we take  performance  and performance  means  to stimulate    something you simply have to overload  all but  no matter what. So  when I  go through the   data it is NOT a critic  what  coaches  do but more  what   may  be combined in the future  to   avoid  certain  problems  we  simply do not like to discus in  so called  healthy people.
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