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S.M.

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 #1 
I wondered if anyone has tried any tri-specific 5/1/5 assessments in a brick format or whether there would be any validity to it.  The reason I ask is that if an athlete were tested in sport isolation example bike one day, run another they may be working in inappropriate zones (assuming our athlete does not have a personal Moxy but rather used the assessment zoning) than if they did a bike/run and we saw how the limiter in one sport directly affected the other.
Juerg Feldmann

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 #2 
Sandy  excellent  point  and it shows  that you  moved  far  above  and beyond  classical thinking in  physiological terms..
 When you think that  still today    most  top  labs  argue, that we   can make VO2  max test on a  bike or  treadmill  for nay sport. So we have this ridiculous  situation, that  NHL players  get  assessed  on a bike to make  conclusion on what they  will bring on   the ice rink. Same  with NBA  players  and so on..
 We have  downhill skiers  who get VO2  max tested on a bike  and   figure  skater, who get tested  in running.
 Now body ever  would    try to talk a  Pro  cyclists  to get tested In a  swimming pool  or  a  marathon runner on a skate mill.
 It may  be time  to understand , that assessment  to design individual training ideas  have to be done in the  sport your athletes  like to    compete..
 There are some  as  usual exceptions, where i would   assess a  runner on a bike  or a  ice hockey player  in   the water.
 Why ?
 I will sent you some   ideas we put together  for triathlon  over  20 years back  in your    quest  for  assessing in  bricks  as well   for your  ideas on how to train   muscular    without loading respiration  or better overloading respiration as well as    isolated or  more focused  cardiac    workouts.
  We did  again many years  back  with Dr. A. Sellars   one of the worlds  leading  and advanced triathlon coaches  some interesting studies in Joshua  tree, where we  " abused" a world  class  athletes  and assess     with live  feed backs  of  Physio flow    and NIRS  and VO2 the same athlete  on  very different    activities  , from upper body UBC  cycling erg  to    stair climbers  to elliptical  to bi3k to run  and so on. . Many of this   information   than I paired  what we did  in Spain  and Italy in our bike running  and triathlon  camps  and  this is the result of it, using a  small simple tool  and get  not optimal but pretty  closer to feed backs we  got  with the combination of  all of this  toys.

Here a great overveiw  in the "complexity"  of  assessing live  all the different  systems  at once.
This   an example  from Switzerlands   research groups.( Courtesy  Andri   and SWINCO )

cardio ex.jpg 


Above  a  small inside info  from Physio Flow (  Manatec  and Frank  and Jean Bour) You have the basic  feedback on CO  - HR  x  SV. We often as well look  at  Ef %  ( ejection fraction % )  as well therefor on EDV  ( end diastolic  volume ) as this was fun to compare  with  tHb  reactions. Than we look at  LVET  ( left ventricular ejection time )  pair this  with HR  wich than gives  something we call cardiac  contraction time  and we   where looking on connection with RF  and HRV  in this  matter
 Than there are  different indexes  and an opportunity to  actually calcuate MVO2  or the amount of O2  the  heart itself  is using.
If we have that we  than  can play  with a combination of  respiratory  feedbacks  and see how they interact  with cardiac  feedbacks.
so below  an inside  view in the same athlete  live  on respiratory  actions.

resp info ex.jpg 

To make a  long story short  you add NIRS  to it  and than you   start playing live  and see all in front of you how    NIRS datas  change  when we  influence  respiration or cardiac  out puts.
 Here to complete  the picture.

NIRS ex.jpg

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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 #3 
Got a  fast responds .  Question was.  Where  are the lactate data on the graph. On the graph  I showed  w there are non  but here an other example with lactate  feed backs  from a 5/1/5  and you can see, how lactate  changes  despite  same  load  at certain moments  as a very  simple example  how  step length  directly influences  lactate values  and  as  such  using lactate  values  to  create  something we called  LT is  a  very interesting  concept  with many  and more  and more  question marks ???
 Here  to    read.
NH_VENT.png 

Above  assessment courtesy  of  our  friends  from Norway.( Halvard)

Juerg Feldmann

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 #4 
Okay  back to Sandy's  great point :

 than if they did a bike/run and we saw how the limiter in one sport directly affected the other.

You may have depending on the activity different limiters  and compensator  as we may find out  with our  Teheran VO2  example.
 So   you  can find  with a sport specific  assessment the limiter in running, which may or may not be the limiter in swimming  or  biking.  Now  here as an example. If  your running shows a respiratory limitation  and your biking may show a  muscular limitation,  than you can use  biking  for  muscular  workouts  and just push  so you do not involved a compensator like respiration, because yesterday  you may have done a run  and pushed  respiration.. Now  you may  try  to use the bike to  strengthen  as well running motion  so hip  flexion    and extension. You therefor  could use a power crank ( independent crank system so you have to pull and push  and many using Frank Days  great   idea    come back  and say , that they are surprised  how it helped their running ability nearly more than  what they  expected  for cycling.

 Than  and that's  what  Sandy    brings up.
 I often do a  5/1/5   by combining running and biking.
 How. I have a  bike  5/1/5  and I have a run 5/1/5. I have a  bike  ARI  STEI  FEI  and HII  and a  such  wattage  there  and or HR.
 Than I have the same  for running.
 So the brick  5/1/5  can be 5 min bike  in ARI  1 min rest 5 min run in ARI  1 min rest  and than 5  STEI  Bike  and  5  STEI  run. and so on. Some times  I  change in the 5/1/5  so  start  bike ARI  and  than run ARI  than again  new level STEI  RUN  followed by STEI bike  and than BIke  FEI  and run FEI  and so on.
 So you can see how the   run may help to recover the limiter    form the bike and vice verca  or whether it simply speeds  up the body to fail as now  non f the limiter  is getting a real break. In ARI  d this should be no problem  in STEI the limiter I pushed  but no compensator  and in FEI  limiter is   pushed and   Compensator is pushed Hope it make sense  and it is a one  step closer to understanding  how you can load  one system  and  try so an other one can get a little bit  of a break.
S.M.

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 #5 
Perfect!  This does answer both questions thank you.  I will try this with a few willing athletes and see what we can see!  I like that we can assess this way; I have a few athletes with their own Moxys who are becoming more and more aware of what their bodies are actually telling them so we are seeing things like how a workout they believed was a "recovery session" for example an easy swim session for one actually exhausts his diaphragm (respiratory limitation).  From that we have moved things around so that swimming is not used as recovery after a workout designed to stress his respiratory system.  In fact one athlete who decided to go off program added an extra two swims because he was feeling muscularly fatigued and it took him two weeks of easy, easy, rest and recovery to get his diaphragm recovered.
Juerg Feldmann

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 #6 
Sandy, great feedback  and great examples.
If  you have a  runner  , where we find  breathing a limiter in running   and he  goes swimming as  you explained, than he  may only recover  muscles  as he is getting rid  of eccentric  muscle load
. BUT
   he may in fact  have a  sore  or  fatigued  leg muscles  due to this respiratory limitation in running. So the  respiratory weakness  in running  creates in  many workouts in running  a  higher CO2   level  like we  had in your intensity run.
 The higher CO2    ( hypercapnia)  has the  reaction  that it shifts  the O2  disscurve to the right.
 This will show up in lower SmO2  values  so it shows  a better utilization,  due  to the high CO2 level. On the other side he  will have problems  to load  O2 so he  will have less O2  delivery ( EIAH ) . This creates a  different ability in metabolic  substrate use , so he  has  more problems  to  integrate FFA  and  will use   more often or  easier glucose.
 So the " fatigue"  he feels in his  legs  for example  is due  to  respiratory limitation.
   and not  due to overload  due  to muscular workouts.
. As he now  is  using  swimming to  relax  his legs ( which may in fact work [wink] he  on the other side  does not   recover  his actual limiter the respiration.
 In fact  in swimming he may  even increase the hypercapnic reaction   and for sure, when he swims  relaxed, as he may have a ratio of inspiration to expiration timing  of  1 : 4  or even longer. Depending on the way  he  may  breathe  he  even  ads  some  expiratory  resistance the load as  he may exhale  into the water.

 Now , as  Andri points  out  ,  and  as you do , this is very individual. You can  let go  leg  work  with  a  poolbouy or other ideas.  The fact is, that in this specific  case the  limiter will   be   even  worse on    after  all the " recovery".
  Hope it makes  sense.  I will  come   more an more here  ( avoiding cook books ) but giving some ideas  on what we  do.  So how  do I  use  a  5/1/5  to , as  Sandy  asked , to   reduce respiration load  but  increase muscular load  ,  or how do I train cardiac ideas on cardiac muscle development or even  cardiac  capillarisation with not  always overloading respiration.
 Now  here  an initial feedback so you can see how respiration  actually influences  a  lot in combination  with  cardiac  reactions. Hypercapnia   stimulates the body  to release more O2  as CO2 is to high. Higher CO2   will show ow  in MOXY  as a  drop in SmO2. CO2   increases  blood flow  (tHb )  will go up.. Higher  tHb or  return of blood  to the heart increases  preload  and SV  will go  normally up  and so on.
 Now  here  for MOXY users  a  simple game  you can show to get the feeling  for hypocapnia  and hypercapnia. Mount the MOXY  anywhere  for example on a leg  or on your biceps.
  Now breathe 3  - 4 Min  normal , no crazy ideas.
 Than hold your breathe, as long as you can  and see what happens  on SmO2 trend . See time lag  as well.
 Now here  you will have a first  question. If  you are able  to bring your  body into  a hypercapnic situation you will see a  drop in SmO2. As  well look at  HR  and HRV  reaction.
 What  will  throw up a question is the tHb reaction , which in many cases  will not  react as  expected  tHb  up  but rather the opposite.   Why ? 
Than  breath normal till your SmO2  and tHb  are back  to norm  values  as you started  out.  Now  try to   do the opposite  and breathe  hypocapnic and see again , whether you can trigger  a  tHb  and SmO2  reaction.
    Needs some practice  like anything. Once you are able to  do this , do this  on a bike or  as  you walk  or jog   and  try it  first in a ARI intensity,  than in a STEI  intensity  and  finally in a  FEI intensity look  always  how you react  and  how you feel. This will help for the next  physiological ideas  of  workouts.
  Here a  very   old  case  study  we  did  with Portamon  many years  back  and Physio flow   to    show you the reactions   of  respiration on  SV  and   SmO2.
rersp  games.jpg

S.M.

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 #7 
Dennis 515 for Juerg.PNG Here is my first tri specific 5/1/5 test; it was fun to administer.

My client began by cycling at 95 watts then ran at 7kph.  I kept him running for the next interval to limit shoe changes and see if we could get some data from an undisturbed 1 minute stand.  I eliminated the HR from this chart but have included it in the csv file.

 
Attached Files
xlsx Tri_Moxy_Dennis.xlsx (32.76 KB, 45 views)

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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 #8 
Sandy  thanks  will work on it  and will be lot's of  fun  to see, what we  can get out  of it.
  Till later
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #9 
Working on Sandy's  challenge  brick assessment.
 I am comparing it  with many  we did to see some similarity or not.
 There is one  specific section  which  I have no  clue  yet  what it   means  and I like to share it  here  so I may get some feedback on your thoughts.
 But first a  short  direction  why we do this in triathlon.
 1. If we  have one discipline  alone the limiter  is clear  and can be  nicely targeted in that  specific  discipline , let's  say running.
 If we may a  multi task  workout in one session like for example running and biking , we may   be able to use  one discipline to target  one limiter  but  than have to   dramatically reduce the performance in the other as the limiter in running  may be a compensator in  biking.
 So  if we " overload" or target  respiration  for example in running as a limiter   and  respiration in  cycling is a  compensator  for  a muscular limitation , but the compensator in a   run prior to the  bike is overloaded, he  may  be  in the bike  now the limiter   and not the muscle  and therefor we have to change the  performance load   which is based on physiological loads  as you now  can understand   whether than on a performance we assessed in a bike only assessment.
 So what can be a great opportunity to change specific  targets , if  we know them, can be a high risk of a severe overload, if  we do not know them.
2. If  we look coordination workouts  the same  applies.
 So the  seems some ideas in triathlon. where  certain  coaches will argue  that  one discipline  has priority to  another one  due to coordination challenge.
 I would argue  that that is very individual and depends much more on  limiters  than on the coordination aspect  first and foremost, as coordination workouts have to be done  without  pushing the limiters  too much as the goal is  coordination and not a metabolic delivery or utilization stimulation. So  for coordination you like to have  an optimal delivery  and an optimal  utilization in the   proper muscle  sling or  muscle chain  to have an optimal  coordination workout.

 So before  we look closer into the above  possibilities  I like to  show you the overall view  and one section I  do not understand   as of yet.


 Below  first the  full " Brick " TIP  with  r  = run and b = bike loads
thb smo2  all  plus  disci.jpg


Now  below  SmO2  and HR  of the same workout.

smo2  hr all plus  disc.jpg    And below the end  of the TIP in a closer view. So we have 2  B  and last  load  was  a  run. Before the 2 b  I  left  the second last  run as well.
 Can you see, what looks interesting ?

thb smo2  last  few.jpg 


Juerg Feldmann

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 #10 
Now here the next  interesting feedback we  got  from Sandy's  studies.
 It  confirms   trends we see  during our  mixed  TIP assessments. . I do  lot of  upper lower body ideas  like upper body  tip  and lower body up  top see the  potential shift of  tHb  from upper to lower body. This is  interesting to understand in any  complex x  sport like game sports  ice hockey but as well in rowing and  cross country skiing.  Here a  first  glimpse  on what I am looking for in a picture.
 Below you have  biased TIP's  . Top one  the  latest Brick  TIP  form Sandy we discuss here.
 than a  TIP  just  form the same athlete in biking and than  a TIP just running.
 You can see, why I like biased  O2HB  and HHB  option.

bias all three.jpg

 In  as simple words  as possible  and not  getting it  wrong:
 Biased means  I speculate  all start by zero  at the start  so O2Hb  and HHb  are equal and now I look at the relative reactions against  each other. So  if  O2Hb  ( red ) goes up  I load  more O2  than I have  at the start    and vica versa.
 So a  increase in tHb  above    baseline indicates  a  increase in O2  delivery  compared  to the start and    when red  and blue  cross I  move into a situation, where I have now  more  HHb  or less loaded O2  than at the start. So in running ( last  graph  you can see I  always have a "positive" O2  situation with exception   at the last load so  it seems  always decent great delivery  situation during running. On the otter side in  cycling ( middle graph )  I see  okay delivery till the mid  section  followed by a  change in O2 Hb   so I have less  O2  than at the start In the  brick  I have a very short section where I am just base line  situation. as well you can see, that in the cycling only TIP  even at the very  low intensity start I started out  with a  " delivery "  "problem  and than  recovered a bit in that   assessment. Never the less    in running   there is not even at the start a  " delivery "  Problem"

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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 #11 
Now  let's look the tHb reaction as we looked  at the biased  one.

thb br bi r.jpg Remember  look at the trend only  not the absolute numbers as we  for sure not had the  mOXY  accurately at the exactly same place. Nevertheless the trend is very interesting  and in the  Brick tHb trend  you clearly see   where the bike  and where the running loads where done ???

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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 #12 
Okay like to get back to Sandy's interesting TIP  of a Brick (  run an bike  MOXY assessment.

 One of the Key  questions in multi sport or  activities, where different body parts  are involved in different actions is  on how the one  activity may influence the  other activity.
 Example here is  run and Bike. but it  could be upper body  load  and than  lower body load  and than total body load like we have  in Cross country skiing .  To make it an easy example I like to use   a graph we showed  many times  on here but over time  it may make  much mores sense, when you see how we look at  ideas.
 1967  dal Monte  Teheran.
Kajak VO2.jpg
 The kayaker and the runner are  pushing in three different disciplines  all out performance .
 Each discipline is tested  on its own  ability. But  can you imagine how they may influence  the performance if  we would d mix   them like Sandy  did in her Brick.
 You can see, why  we have some questions in the value of  VO2 testing  an than use a calculator. Each of this three disciplines   had a different 'LIMITER"  so the  VO2  did  really not changed  when we look  at  it different, what changed  was the ability  to use  O2  due to the different limitation of  delivery and utilization.
 The same  idea but using a MOXY   on upper  and lower  and non involved muscle would have given us  most likely more feedback than  an absolute VO2  peak number  and as  such a  much better idea on  where limitations  show up  and what  can we  do with it, and what discipline  we  can  use  today  to give a limiter form yesterday a rest. ????

  Here a second  example  I like to show , as i discuss  for the moment  with a  top  Condition coach  from a  top  league  and a top team I( I tried  to discuss  but   we  gave up ).
 His point is, that  he can do a VO2  max test on a bike with his  NHL  players  and the VO2  max  will be the same  whether they ruin  and whether they are on the  ice.
 Now  I  do not argue  against that  small chance , that they may be    perhaps once  some  player, who may  show a close  chance to  have the same VO2  max in all three  events, but  what I  asked is to see the test results  they claim the science  shows it.
 We have  hundreds  of test  and never yet  found a  player  who  actually shows the same VO2  max on a bike than he shows on the ice  or in running or on a  skate mill.
 There are even accepted  studies  published  who would  argue that.
 here one.
vo2 on  and off ice.jpg 


 And here  for  fun a real live  example on the  VO2  use    when carrying  something with different techniques.

 
vo2 AND DIFFWERENT WAY OF TRANSPORTATION.jpg
Now you see perhaps my point.
 Testing the many  ice hockey players  on a bike in a lab is great  for the guy  who likes  to  say, that he is the exercise physiological  guy  for this top  team.
 BUT he  does not  supply any meaningfully ideas  to the coaches    on what  can be improved  in each player, if needed.
 But  he for sure  can charge  a lot of money  for a meaningless assessment each  and every single player hates , but has to do , as it is   so ordered  and paid  for. 
 Now  back to Sandy.
  Optimal dream situation.
 1. Running TIP
2. Bike TIP .
 2  Brick TIP.
 This in a decent similar  time  span  so  the current limitation and compensation  and up  to date  and therefor we  can use  as well performance to compare  how  when  just running performance looks  or when just biking performance looks  and how the limitation of  running for example may influence the   performance in cycling and vica verca.
 So I use  for Sandy's  example the bike test and the run test , but they are not up to date  with the Brick test.
 It does not matter as  an example  but  we  still can see how  one  discipline may influence the other  or    from a positive point  how I  can use one discipline today  to avoid a limiter overload  I  create  yesterday in the other discipline.
  So here the  graphs  and  some  questions you can work on.


 First below  an overview  of  all three  assessments  and the easiest  way is to look just red  (O2Hb.) and blue position in this bias  graph. Biased here means  that we look as  if all would start by 0  and  the trend  now tells  a us whether from the start we  actually add  O2  to the base line resting situation in this muscle or whether we  actually  always have less than start values.. So   if  Red goes up we add O2  so  that indicates, we  deliver  more than we  actually  for the moment had at rest  and  use  now under activity.
 If  we  have red  below the blue  , than we  seem to   have  less O2  than  at the start  line  and  the delivery  lags  behind or  is not sufficient  enough   when we started  out.. ( very  simple)  So  look at this  below.
bias all three.jpg 


Now  lets' look at a  very simple " zoning " idea  and we look    to find  for  running  alone  and biking alone  ,the STEI intensity. ( the intensity, where supply  and demand  are  balanced.)  so we   move in an intensity , where the limiter  is just   getting to his best performance  and we do not yet   try to ask  compensators  to try to help  to maintain the current performance.

zone STEI  run only.jpg
 Above the TIP run assessment and looking  just SmO2   info  ( no tHb involved )  for  zoning . R = Running  assessment  and the 12  is the performance  at the STEI intensity  which is 12 km /h  on that  day. ( For   performance  nerds  3.30  for a marathon )

 Now  below the same idea  but biking only.

zone Brick bike only.jpg 

 Above a TIP  bike  and 180 is the wattage  at the STEI  on that day.
  Now  if we put a tbrick together  and we take performance  or HR  as  intensity guide, than   when we use TIP  we have  12 km / h  run and 180 watt bike or the HR accordingly to the assessment.
  When we  take VO2  max  ??? when we  take FTP ?  and when we  take  lactate threshold  ???
 You put it toegther.
  The question rather is , whether  any of the above ideas  , including the TIP  information actually  work in a brick. ??
 Or  whether the smartes  idea  would be not  to boder  with any of the test  results  , use   performance 12 km / h  and  180 watt and  HR as a potential guide  to start out  but really looking live  what actually really happens  during the brick  so  use MOXY live  to  really know, whether you do your brick  work, if  planned , in STEI  for running today  and STEI  for biking  today.
 So here the result in the Brick ( assuming   the run and  bike  would be updated  and  would be as we see it . )

zone STEI r and b  brick.jpg
 So,  as you can see during the brick, the STEI intensity  for  biking  would be 165 +-  watt and for running   slightly below  10 km/h.
 So  performance  seem to be influenced  due to the other discipline  and in this client  biking seem to influence much more the running performance. When you look at   tHb  reaction you may see perhaps  why.?


thb br bi r.jpg 
Can you see what I am looking at   ?

S.M.

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 #13 
There is a huge decrease in blood flow happening on the bike, possible a metaboreflex?
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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 #14 
Sandy,
yes  the tHb   is clearly reacting very different  in  his bike load  compared to running.
Now you know how we  hate to say
 : I  do not know the answer "   well My answer: I  do not know , just have some ideas  to discuss here.

1. If  we do  a SEMG  assessment in running and biking, than we have a  clear   difference in SEMG activity in running   and biking on the vastus  lateralis.
 The  SEMG  activity  is much lower in running compared  with  biking  but it is  as well  much more  " restless" ( eccentric ?

 Now   SEMG  activity alone  are very dangerous  to compare   and the same is true , when we compare  SEMG  with left and right leg in biking..
 Now  the same  may be true  when looking just on MOXY /NIRS data  when we  compare.
 Reason.
  Let's  see, whether I can  get  that though in swenglish but I may need some help  if it is unclear.
. If we compare  NIRS/MOXY  and SEMG  Data from left  and right  or  from one sport to the other  we  have to have some feedback on  the actual performance  we  create. So in biking we need  wattage  right and left  and in running we  need to compare   load ( landing  if possible )
 Example.
 I take a  5 kg    weight  and lift  my arm  in extension in the  sagital axis  , gleno humeral joint position of 0  abduction  - adduction  and  90  degrees elevation  so in simple words   lift the arm straight forward  up.
 I have a SEMG on  my biceps  and a MOXY on my biceps.
.
 Now  I  do the same  but   with both arms.
 Assumption that I   have  the placing perfect ( unlikely  ever the case ).
 Now  I have in the left arm a much  lower SEMG  activity compared  with the right side .
. Question. Is  the left arm  stronger than the right  or weaker.
 And  depending on the answer  what  would we  expect  with  MOXY SmO2  and perhaps  even tHb ?

Now  if you have this answer  you understand  what I   try to tell  when comparing left  and right leg  with MOXY alone  and  right leg  will show a lower  or  " better " SmO2  drop. Which one is the  weaker or  stronger leg, the one  with a  more  extreme  desaturation or the other  one. The one  with the higher SEMG  or the one with the lower one.?

2. Now  metaboreflex.
 I am not sure  whether we  can look  at that  when comparing run and bike, We  can  look at  Bike only  and see.
 Now remember. metaboreflex  in respiration means that the respiratory system  has  problems  with the needed  baseline pO2. As  such  it will create  over  CNS  a  vasoconstriction to reduce the O2    to move to the  locomotor  muscles.
As  such we will  see a tHb  drop.  Would we see a drop in SmO2  % ?
 I think  in this case the  clear  drop in tHb is  perhaps more  due to  the much higher involvement in    performance  of vastus  lateralis  in biking compared  to running  so more  muscle compression.
 Now  if  we ave  much higher  involvement  during running  and it is  a  concentric  activity  than the question is  whether despite the lower  but still needed involvement  in running may loose  performance  due to the clear higher load during biking.?
 As you can see  many questions.
 What  can be the solution.( suggestion)
 In this cases I start to play around  with different ideas. like  actually loading  vastus lateralis  eccentric  and than bike  and vica verca in the gym. .
 So the different options  and see how the respond  is.
 This  than can be translated in the  race as a preparation  from bike to run  depending on the reaction.
 A  possible big challenge is the change from concentric  to eccentric   work in   bike to run.

 Or  you can play with it in up and down hill running.  run  hard  downhill and  look that it is steep enough so you really can NOT accelerate , but have to slow down the all out speed  so  have eccentric
load for about  20 - 30 seconds  down than immediately change in a step uphill ,so  extreme change  from eccentric  to concentric  and see how the reaction is..
( Now  bad  cook book  really what i do  is  i use MOXY  for the eccentric  load duration  and  as well for the concentric load duration together with tHb .
 Try it out look how tHB  reacts during eccentric  and concentric.
 Keep it for you or share it  here ( Smile )
Very interesting SEMG reaction when you do this games. What do you expect.
 Hint  go back to the forum  where we  showed  Eric's ( Finland;and )  stair  climbing  up and down reactions. ).
S.M.

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Posts: 65
 #15 
I would assume the right arm is stronger and would have a lower SmO2.
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