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Roger

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 #1 
Roger

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Posts: 245
 #2 
We didn't have time for all of the submitted questions so here are the ones we didn't get to.  If you have more, you can submit them to this discussion thread.

I will provide some insight on a couple of these and leave the difficult ones for Sandy.

Q: is this working with polar watches as well?
Roger: No, not yet.  Our hardware has the capability to broadcast using both BTLE and ANT+ but we have only programmed the ANT+ so far.  Polar would most likely use BTLE.  It's on our roadmap but we're not there yet.

Q: Is Moxy relationship with TP exclusive?
Roger: No, any Muscle Oxygen device can use this functionality.  One caveat is that Dynastream is not yet supporting standards for the FIT2.0 format data that we are using on ConnectIQ devices.  I have shared the format documentation that we used on the FIT forums and on the ConnectIQ forums and I will share it with anyone that asks for it.  Technically, it's just a Moxy standard at this point, but we think it is best for the industry to let everyone use it.

Q: Are you using the Scatter Graph?
Roger: Yes, the SmO2 and THb are shown on the Scatter Graph.

Q: how is moxy system different than BSX?
Roger: One of the biggest differences is that Moxy can read SmO2 on a scale of 0% to 100% with useful accuracy where the BSX SmO2 value is only useful for indicating trends in SmO2.  By "useful accuracy" I mean on the order of within 5-10% based on occlusion and hyperamic testing.  A low number like 10% means almost fully desaturated and 90% almost fully saturated and 50% in the middle.  Other Muscle Oxygen monitors do not have this capability.  We have a blog post with more detail here.  Email me at roger@moxymonitor.com if you have more technical questions on this.

Q: Is there an easy way to make pre-connectIQ moxy files into a combined fit file?
Roger: I think I've done this with Golden Cheetah.  I have not tried FitFileTools, but they have a file combiner that might work. https://www.fitfiletools.com

Q: which moxy equipment is required to access this smo2 thb?
Roger: A Moxy sensor records the SmO2 and THb which can be downloaded from the sensor after the workout.  The data is also broadcast over ANT+ which can be displayed and recorded on a Garmin, Wahoo Elemnt, or stages bike computer or a number of training software packages like PerfPro, PeriPedal, and Golden Cheetah.  With any of these methods, the data can be viewed in TrainingPeaks.

Q: Is there a feature request no out here where I can add a +1 to that?
Roger: Probably submitting something directly to TrainingPeaks would be best.  Here's a link to do that.


Q: Do you use Moxy to set threshold?

Q: is there a different in the data from runners or triathletes when you put the moxy in diferent body locations

Q: Can a decide the recovery status of my athletes based on SmO2 values? (E. g. He is tired, he should rest.)

Q: Is there an option to see trends over time? And how best to improve training performance

Q: How do you let athletes know when they are good to train hard? What figures do they look at to know this?

Q: What amount of change in THb are you deeming significant?

Q: The SmO2 sensors are quite sensitive to positioning, sweat, etc. How do your athletes avoid errors introduced due to this?

Q: Whats are the value of each tresholds (aerobic and anaerobic) for %Hb in Moxy?

Q: Do you give your athletes specific instructions to ensure that they get consistent measurements?

Q: Will training peaks allow the smo2 or thb to be plotted on the same graph as everything else? or will it always be a seperate trace?

Q: How does the SmO2 recovery compare to HR variability recovery?

Q: Do you have your athletes monitor SMO2 during the workout (beyond warmup)? If so what are they looking at/for, and how do they react?

Q: Have you ever tried to make a test combining the moxy and measuring the blood lactate?

Q: How do you find SmO2 compares to training with only HR or power? What are the main advantages that you find with your athletes?

Q: Do you have a set "protocol" of things you look at - e.g. look at warm up time required, look at which muscles are actually activated during X...etc?

Q: How do you use Thb data?

Q: Is power wattage useful/necessary in combination with Moxy?

Q: You've talked about using Moxy for recovery assessment, but how do you structure workouts based on the values?

Q: Great presentation, thank you! Just can't wait to get my hands on one of Moxy!

S.M.

Development Team Member
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Posts: 65
 #3 

Q: Do you use Moxy to set threshold?
A: I do not use "threshold" but rather use Moxy to see where an athlete's body changes from the limiting system to the compensating system.  The Zones I use are 1 through 4. Zone 1 is warm-up, recovery, SmO2 line is climbing.
Zone 2 is steady state, SmO2 line is typically flat
Zone 3 is where the body's limiting system begins to fatigue and the SmO2 line begins to decline but not dramatically
zone 4 the compensator has taken over, the SmO2 line is typically in freefall
for discussion purposes I would argue top zone 3 would be threshold 

Q: is there a different in the data from runners or triathletes when you put the moxy in diferent body locations
A: there may be a difference is data based on body part per athlete, I have not seen a difference in runners vs triathletes specifically but rather a difference in data per sport and what that athlete's primary sport is. ie: a triathlete that would identify running as their strong sport would show differences in data between running and cycling vs a triathlete that identifies as a cyclist.  (I hope that made sense)

Q: Can a decide the recovery status of my athletes based on SmO2 values? (E. g. He is tired, he should rest.)
A: Yes.  If your athlete typically sees SmO2 values in the 80's during warm-ups and recovery efforts then starts to see a maximum of 70 (example, no validity in absolute numbers) OR conversely your athlete can typically desaturate (go from 75 to 45) when doing a zone 3 effort but on today's workout only goes from 75 to 70 with the same metrics (HR, watts) then they are probably experiencing localized muscle fatigue and should take a recovery day for the muscular system.

Q: Is there an option to see trends over time? And how best to improve training performance
R: Yes this would be your focus, to see trends over time.  It's what you do with those trends that will determine how you train your athlete and hopefully see improved training performance.  

Q: How do you let athletes know when they are good to train hard? What figures do they look at to know this?
A: I have them look at their warm-up SmO2.  If they achieve the numbers seen in their trend profile they are good to go for hard training but the beauty of the Moxy is that it allows for changes to the workout in the moment.  An example would be that if you are giving an athlete an HIIT workout.  They achieve their usual warm-up SmO2 and then they start their intervals.  In a typical w/o they would be assigned something like 5 x 30 seconds all out with 30-second recoveries.  Using the Moxy I would say go until you can't desaturate to the same level OR you don't recover to your same level.  Both of those parameters would indicate fatigue in some system.  So today they may only be able to do 3 intervals and then they stop desaturating indicating muscle or respiratory fatigue but 2 weeks from now they can 7 intervals before fatigue sets in.  What we would work on in between would be whatever that limiting system was (example respiratory).  This makes the workout dynamic and responsive to the athlete's needs.

Q: What amount of change in THb are you deeming significant?
A: I don't look at the actual number so therefore I don't think in terms of "amount" but rather the trending of the line.

Q: The SmO2 sensors are quite sensitive to positioning, sweat, etc. How do your athletes avoid errors introduced due to this?
A: Positioning is something we worked on from the standpoint of an identifying landmark like a freckle or mole.  They have talked about getting a tattoo mark like a period or small X you just need to be careful with this as we have found they don't read as well through large or densely coloured tattoos.  Sweat, if you find this is an issue it can be wrapped in saran wrap.  I have found movement to be more of an issue.  Some triathletes that wear compressive shorts try to not use cover stretch but we have found that the shorts move and then so does the monitor so I encourage the use of the cover stretch and the light shield.

Q: Whats are the value of each tresholds (aerobic and anaerobic) for %Hb in Moxy?
A: There are no absolute values.

Q: Do you give your athletes specific instructions to ensure that they get consistent measurements?
A: I do but I can not guarantee they follow them they are aware however that when they don't (see the answer about positioning) that is what can affect their day to day results.

Q: Will training peaks allow the smo2 or thb to be plotted on the same graph as everything else? or will it always be a seperate trace?
A: Great question and hopefully they will.  This would be a good suggestion for an improvement.

Q: How does the SmO2 recovery compare to HR variability recovery?
A: I'm not sure as I have not made the comparison.  It is possible someone in the forum has.

Q: Do you have your athletes monitor SMO2 during the workout (beyond warmup)? If so what are they looking at/for, and how do they react?
A: Yes. It depends on the workout what they are looking for.  If it is an intensity they are looking for either a small desaturation (zone 3) or a larger one (zone 4).  I try to match zoning and SmO2 to breathing rate.   

Q: Have you ever tried to make a test combining the moxy and measuring the blood lactate?
A: When I first got my Moxy I did 2 tests with long time athletes plus myself using Moxy and lactate.  I figured out very quickly that Moxy was much more responsive.

Q: How do you find SmO2 compares to training with only HR or power? What are the main advantages that you find with your athletes?
A: I find my athletes recover quicker with less time off dealing with fatigue, illness or injuries so they have the capacity to do more hard work which allows for a bigger improvement.  A traditional training plan might have an easy, hard, easy pattern with every third week as a down week and a very careful recovery plan of at least 3 weeks. I have been able to customize it more per athlete and have actually used a plan of all hard week then all easy week with a few of my athletes.  Physiologically this can cause huge improvements and psychologically it gives the driven athlete an outlet and permission to go all in then they need the all out recovery so honour it more than a hard, easy plan.

Q: Do you have a set "protocol" of things you look at - e.g. look at warm up time required, look at which muscles are actually activated during X...etc?
A: When I have a new athlete using Moxy we do look at all the things that can affect physiology and create a warm-up protocol using trends as well as involved and uninvolved muscles.  Once we have been trend data then it is looked at when the athlete experiences a change of some sort.  They change from a road to tri set up, we would look at how the trends change.  They take up trail running vs road running; same thing.  Not so much a protocol but watch the trends and follow the data. 

Q: How do you use Thb data?
A: I use the trends of tHb to watch for respiration or hydration (vasodilation or constriction) mostly in my athletes.  It is used in relation to SmO2 primarily for cardiac and pulmonary limitations.

Q: Is power wattage useful/necessary in combination with Moxy?
A: In my opinion no.  As you begin to use your Moxy you can drive your athletes' workout with the Moxy and watch for the wattage output for comparison sake.

Q: You've talked about using Moxy for recovery assessment, but how do you structure workouts based on the values?
A: The values themselves don't drive a workout but a change in values.  An athlete that can achieve a SmO2 of 90 and when working all out can only drop to 87 or 88 would indicate a need to work on some HIIT efforts or breathing like the one I showed with breath holds.  Another athlete that can achieve a SmO2 of 70 and doing an all out effort drops to 20 would indicate a need to do some zone 2, steady state work to increase the abilities of cardiac system.

Q: Great presentation, thank you! Just can't wait to get my hands on one of Moxy!
A: Excellent to hear!  Thank you for the feedback and enjoy your Moxy!

ryinc

Development Team Member
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Posts: 356
 #4 
Thanks for the interesting webinar Sandy.

Two questions;
- For the athlete with the C02 problem causing lack of desaturation - could you share whether (and if yes how) you eliminated other possibilities - e.g. low recruitment for the muscle being measured, muscle fibre make up skewing values?
- For the athlete that you mentioned had poor riding technique causing high levels of desaturations (ride hard, ride easy etc), how did you pinpoint this as the issue rather than just high utilisation (or poor delivery) - was it something that also came through in a higher variability Index (i.e. ratio of normalized power to power) metric for this athlete too?

Thanks again.
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