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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
The "physical " protocol" will dictate the physiological outcome.  In one of our discussion I state, that the  test protocol will dictate the conclusion of the physiological outcome, and as such the conclusion may be completely wrong. Or to avoid the  hated  word wrong, the outcome  will be very different even when testing the same athlete and as such the training suggestion and intensity  information will be very different as well.
 The best example for this statements is in the "classical" testing we still do.
 We use indirect in formations to make direct conclusions.
 Lactate and VO2  indirect blood gas testing are the 2 most common  situations.
 When we change test protocols  from 2 min to 3 or 4 or 5 min steps we will have every time a different information and therefor a different conclusion.
  Reason. is the lag of the information from  where the energy demand happened to where t we test the potential reaction.
 ( Lactate at the ear or finger and O2  at the mouth.)
 NIRS  ( MOXY   will change completely how we look and how we have to design the protocol. We need a physiological guided protocol and not a  time guided  forced outcome. To have  decent information on how respiration can change SmO2  ( lactate, HR  and O2 diss curve you need at least a 5 min step length. better is a homeostasis interruption situation to see how it reacts  after a reload on the same performance - IPAHD)

 I like to show here some test and you make the conclusion.

 First att.  three  classical VO2 tests. look at point 6 in 2 of the three test .
 What can you see on the trend in lactate dynamic.
 . Att 2 is the same of the most right shifted test from before.
 Look again closer to point 6.
 This group change the time of the  first 6 steps  from 3 04 54 min step Length to a 1 min step length. So what would we expect from the reaction of Lactate and RF and HR ??
 This has very little to do   with anything other  than the  protocol will dictate the out come and mess up the conclusion no matter what  ideas or theories we  put behind the justification of the change.
 Here from an email I got in yesterday from a friend in Netherlands.
 He sent me a great  study and this is one short section , where he confirms my points  nicely.

The study was done on Pro cyclists and Amateur cyclists in Maastricht 2007.
 The beauty is, that it confirms even more and we will be for sure back using this great work to show how conclusions between performance driven and physiological driven can really come to a very different interpretation.  ' Here the section.

A study protocol with 3-minute stages was used in this study, starting with 2 W/kg and

increasing every workload step with 0.5 W/kg. Other research investigating differences

between professionals and amateurs, mainly Lucia and Chicharro, used different study

protocols with stages of 25 W/min (17, 18, 37, 39-44). Sallet et al. used a ramp protocol of 30

Watts every 1 minute and 30 seconds (55). These differences in ramp protocols may hamper

comparisons between the several studies. For example, the ramp protocol of 25 W/min

generally requires less total time than the protocol used in this study"

 att 1  three starts with a change in protocol to 1 min step at least by 2 of the three tests.
att 2. Same athlete   but now  5 min test and  shorter step test from before. plus   5 min test in very different situation ( sea level is one and altitude is the other.)
 att 3.  " classical " old explanation , when using different step length form the early 1980 on  lactate and the questionable use of increase in lactate over 1 mmol per step as well as the question on 2 and 4 mmol and what is the proper step length anyway. ?  It is actually very amazing , that with information's we gathered in the late 1980 and the  information even the Father of 2 and 4 mmol offered, that we still discuss the change in lactate  dynamic and therefor shift in the lactate curve to one or the other side and still argue, tat this is a sign of metabolic efficiency when we can shift this curve in the same  step test to the right or the left  by simple changing the  bio availability of O2  to the working muscles. Here the last att  I showed once before.

 When we add to all  of this test  a direct information like  NIRS ( MOXY )  and we look at  ventilation    in the VO2  test  for the direct information like TV and RF  than we would have a  very nice new option to enhance our current  ideas of assessments.

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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Here a short add on  to om ongoing discussion.  A very common information we are getting :

 " VO2max is the maximum amount of oxygen that can be used for energy in an endurance activity. The higher an athlete's VO2max, the greater his or her endurance capability. "
  Here fro a  much more accepted source than we are.
  University of Maastricht :


combination of factors limit VO

2max; these restrictions include cardiopulmonary limitations,

oxygen carrying capacity limitations and limitations in the oxygen consumption capacity by

the muscle cell mitochondria. Despite its general use, VO

2max has not been shown to be

reliable in predicting endurance performance, as witnessed by the lack of difference between

professional and amateur cyclists. Rather, other parameters seem to be highly beneficial in

assessing and predicting cycling endurance performance. The most important parameters are

power output (W), breathing pattern (minute ventilation, V

E; breathing frequency; tidal

volume, Vt), ventilatory equivalent (eqVO"

The second most discussed idea is :

  " The lactate (anaerobic) threshold is reached when lactic acid accumulates in the blood to such an amount as to cause fatigue, muscle discomfort, and a burning sensation. It is generally considered to be the most difficult of the three factors to improve; in fact, the exact methods to effectively increase lactate threshold are often disagreed upon. "

Perhaps we disagree as there may b no such thing like a lactate threshold.( anaerobic threshold or what ever threshold.


To believe or not to believe ... in the anaerobic threshold
    There are those who have no doubt in the existence of the anaerobic threshold; that somewhere between the intensity of a leisurely jog and the most frantic sprint there is a point beyond which you go from aerobic metabolism to a combination of aerobic and anaerobic metabolisms. This convenient and attractive theory has many devotees at present. Popular magazines frequently cite it, implying that its existence is something that is generally agreed upon. Indeed, during a high intensity run for several minutes, you sometimes feel that it would require great courage to increase your speed by even the smallest amount.
    However, current scientific knowledge refutes the anaerobic threshold theory. Presenting the details here would be tedious, but we highlight the following points:


·         There is no power threshold below which a muscle does not produce lactate. A muscle constantly produces lactate, even from the lowest work level, and a muscle produces lactate even when the supply of oxygen is adequate.


·         During a ramp test (such as the ones carried out in the laboratory in which the runner must run at a regularly increasing intensity until exhaustion], the blood lactate concentration never appears as a threshold, as some people argue. The curve obtained shows no deflection (Figure 3). To see one, a very fertile imagination is required. It is true that many sports scientists (whose fame is somewhat inferior to the revenues they obtain from the tests they conduct) unscrupulously possess such an imagination but, in reality, the shape of this curve is most likely the result of a delay in the appearance of the lactate in the blood (PERONNET and MORTON, 1994)."  By 



It is not lactic acid's fault


By Guy Thibault, François Pérnott

  That leaves us for teh moment with teh thought, that we may have  some new ioptions  . IPAHD or teh use of what we can test to a new concept and new ideas.



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