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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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 #16 
Thanks Marcel need  some more help as there is a difference in SmO2 trends  when I  move your csv file  and plot it and than compare with your   pictures  see below I have a section  where SmO2  is going really high up  compared to your graph. Not sure, where I make a mistake but for sure interesting   to fond out  why we have this difference.  Perhaps Roger  can see  where I may  make a mistake as he now  my  tech weakness. It may cost him many  head ache medication. here the 2  plots  and you will see  fast , where I have some  questions.
marcels  smo2.jpg
And here the csv file  and my results on SmO2  and you can see the high section in SmO2 smo2 all.jpg  My SmO2 numbers  go up to  80 %  and yours  only  to  70  or somewhat more but here the list  from the csv  file
csv  list race.jpg

Marcel

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 #17 
Hi Juerg, I took a screen shot of the race part only. The screen shot you put up includes the warm up also. The bit going to 80 was me standing around waiting for the start.
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #18 
Woww if that is the case all makes  so much more sense. here  risky question  and lets' see, what the answer is. below the full MOXY data collection   - warm up  including  race.  Even the most septic  has to  look at the picture  and  it is amazing  how  the  loop   repeats itself  with the SmO2   ( oxygenation trend. )
 Now here the question . I made three  circles. 2  during the race  which may indicate the  shooting situation. If that is the case  we may see the same situation in the warm up, where Marcel may have as well   done some shooting  and or at least positioning  but it looks   so similar that it  may in fact be real. ???
smo2 total  with shooting.jpg

Now this would be  an assessment in real sport situation and we  now can go  and look at SmO2  and tHb behavior over the race  as one  part  and ruing a warm up as the second  part. I will add  later some assessment in from skiing  where we  had  more than one moxy on different  muscles   as  skiing is one  of the sport, where the re is a fight  for blood volume  and SmO2   and the CO is simply not big enough to  keep every body happy.

CO  can't cover.jpg Now based on this we  can see, where or what may perhaps limit  his  performance. In a  complex  sport like biathlon we may  not see the limiter as it could be the upper body and we do not see, whether there  may be a situation there.
 I like to show you a  example of a  ski ergo meter  assessment where the   athlete had  1 moxy on quadriceps  one  on the hamstrings  and one on the triceps.
. First the SmO2 result  and than the tHb result.

ski erg smo2 2 legs  one upper body.jpg

and here the thb reactions
ski erg tHb 2 legs   and one upper body muscle.jpg   This assessment showed a cardiac limitation paired with a quadriceps strenght limitation which created a  H + overload  and therefor  high CO2  which than did  reduced the reoxygenation in the 1 min rest period.
. The cardiac limitation can be seen  in the triceps as a  systemic vasoconstriction , versus the  occlusion outflow in his quadriceps  due to  strength limitation  . We  can look at this later     so first we look at the one single  feedback we have  from Marcel.
 Here   to end the day the picture  from the race only . Thanks  Marcel for solving an easy problem. Here to enjoy  for skeptics  about the repeatability of  MOXY data  just looking at the  SmO2

smo2 all race.jpg  .
 and here for fun  two same sections of the course ( my speculation ) but he was the second time faster over the same stretch  than the first time. Here the SmO2  situation followed by the tHb  situation.

smo2 overlapp  last 2.jpg

tHb overlap same    stretch
thb overlap last 2.jpg

Marcel

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Posts: 54
 #19 
Thanks for the info. Ok so the warm up was the same loop as the race loops.  So below a short intro to the shooting part. You have the long rebound as I recover on a downhill, then a long flat section is skiid which is the platau part on the graph, then a hill approach indicated by the drop again. Then during the shoot the SmO2 recovers to the spike. 

smo2.jpg 

The difference during the warm up was that when I got to the shooting range I drank some water. Then skiid another small part of the loop before standing around before the start.  So drinking water gave a similar SmO2 profile to shooting.

The data includes penalty loops, the last loop during the race had one less penalty hence a faster loop.





Marcel

Development Team Member
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Posts: 54
 #20 
Would like to add two more interesting sessions here. The first from today. Skating on snow. Skiing in the FEI zone. After the warm up there is also the general increase in tHB compared to the first loop as was seen on the race data.


Beitostolen LBP.jpg 
Below on classic rollerskis. A 14 - 15 min hill, flattens off in a few parts as can bee seen on the SmO2 reaction. Interesting part is the tHB. The first 7min was skiing to the hill on a flat road, at the start of the first rep tHB has not really got any alarm phase. After the hill reps I was driven down back to the bottom, each start there is a fairly big alarm phase then tHB stabilises. So what is better. Jump out of the car go or ski around easy then go?
classic unternberg lbp.jpg    

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #21 
Marcel,
you are  just there, where we would love to have coaches and athletes. Meaning to understand, that the physiological reactions we  create due to different interventions  are what we need  for stimulation  and not   actual  " Zoning". The feedback from the MOXY live is what will guide  future  workouts  in any activities. and if we can combine it with HR  and RF  we have the dream bio marker watch I talk about  since  20 years  and we are very close.
 The main problem is the religious believe of  us ( including us )  and the inability to combine  great ideas  from different areas.   Now before we go back to your observation and what you can do with  it I like to get some   feed backs  to you on the race  data and this will stimulate some thinking as well.
 I  overlapped the 3   similar sections   so we have three loops.  1 2 and 3  are the loops  so SmO2  1 is the first loop  and tHb 1  is the first loop as well. I like first  to show the  individual  and than we look  by combining them  plus  we can add HR  as an additional feedback and  do not forget  performance  so time  or speed  or wattage.
. Here first the SmO2 reactions  of the three loop  close together.
smo2  trhee loops cmpariosn.jpg

When you look than you see little difference in   amplitude in all three loops. The only difference we see in the shooting section, where the prone  position  created a much higher SmO2  recovery , than the standing.  Why ?

Now here the same sections   but looking at tHb
thb  trhee loops cmpariosn.jpg  Now here we see the  difference in tHb  between  loop 1  first section and  the other 2 loops. Interesting is, that after the   very strong dip  in tHb 1  we than  have a very close to  the same  tHb reaction as in the following 2 loops. Give it some thoughts , look at  HR trends  as well.
 
Now the next very interesting section would be to see  the upper body  reactions in the same  race situation.  Will  try to add some feed backs  on that. And go back down  and look the result of the cross country  assessment on the erg.

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #22 
So here  the feedback from Marcel in the shooting area.
 Next you can look is how in the different hill areas  up or down how his body was working when looking at tHb reactions in comparison to SmO2  reactions.
 This than gives you an overall idea  on the strength and the weakness of the athlete and explain in shooting area.jpg  the demand   of the racecourse  to this athlete.

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