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xcskier

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 46
 #1 
Hi,

I want to do an initial test asessment for cross-country skiing
and I have some questions about what protocol to use.

I was planning on using something similar to 5-1-5
protocol for running, but there are several problems
with this approach:
1. Since I have varied terrain (up and down),
I can't have a constant effort. There may be steep uphills
and downhills on the course.

2. If I choose a fixed loop (for example 2K) that I can repeat
with different efforts, the time to complete this loop will be
very different. It may take 10 minutes initially and 5 minutes
at an all out effort.

3. If I choose an uphill section that I can repeat with different
efforts, it would take me more than 1 minute to get back to
the starting position to repeat the same section.

What would be a good testing protocol given the above limitations?

I have two sensors and I was plannng on ataching one on a quad and
the other on arm (triceps probably). Would it make sense to attach
a sensor to abs? This may be appropriate for a double-poling only
test where core does most of the work.

Simon

juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #2 
First. How  did you test  before ?
 Like whine you did on snow lactate testing ?  or on Snow  VO2 testing ? If  you had   any of this  versions  do the same but imply add  NIRS  to it.

 If  not 
2. If I choose a fixed loop (for example 2K) that I can repeat
with different efforts, the time to complete this loop will be
very different. It may take 10 minutes initially and 5 minutes
at an all out effort.

Choose a  fixed loop  where a  slow  loop will take  5  plus minute. That is what we do on snow. or  on an up  and down  version on a flat  course. Now  you can take  time markers   or  you an take the speed  form a GPS  or  you can take a HR  range  as a guide.
. With time markers like we did it  20 years back  based on Conconi  timer    you flag  about  100 m  sections. 
 If  you have a GPS it is that much easier  and if  you hvae non of the above  you an take  HR  levels. Example  you ski the first 8  + minutes with a  HR of  +- 5 which you consider super slow  for your very slow classical   sub 1.5 mmol  - 2 mmol lactate intensity based in the Norwegian pattern . That is  your start  intensity.
 Than you may knwo  your   race  HR on  events like in a  sprint. lets  say it is  180.
 Your   LSD  was 110 +- 5

So  start intensity  110+- 5 End intensity  180
 This gives  you a  range of +- 70  beats.  You  like to aim  for 4 - 5  intensity levels.

That would give you 

1. 8 +- min  HR 110 +- 5
2  8 +- min HR 125 +- 5
3. 8+- min HR 140 +- 5
4. 8 +- min HR 155 +- 5
5. 8 +-  min HR 170 +- 5
  So  you  simply have a timer  with an alarm set it so  you have an alarm when  to move to the next level  +-  5  HR level and try to have it  relative stable  for he last 4- 5 min so the first 3 min allow  you  to adjust properly. The Massenet is no just an assessment but a great workout to get the feeling between performance and   feedback  from HR  and as well as NIRS  and respiratory pattern. Good luck.
MOXY placement  depends on the  technique  you like to asses. so talk with your coach about  that and he shall tell you the   main priority muscles  of  your lower body    work  as well the  either  main priority muscle  for your  upper body  work.
In case  you  simply assess  leg  workouts  or   only upper body  workouts  use  on the  less priority body parts  the same  muscle as in a  full workout  any way  .

You can fix a MOXY on the rectus  abdominalis  for signals  but remember this is not a part of  your  core muscles  at all. and you  may get some   interesting signal  as you may  us it  for forced  expiration but as well  for the   motion action  and this may be not synchronized  so you better have a  perfect  timing idea  and a perfect video  with it synchronized  with  MOXY  like Wimu has.

xcskier

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 46
 #3 
Thanks for your detailed protocol explanation.
I'll try it soon.

Quote:
How  did you test  before ?


I did a VO2 / lactate test on a treadmill using
rollerskis: constant treadmill speed with 
inclination changing every 4 minutes (and 1 minute
rest in between).

So, this would be similar to 5-1-5 running/cyclng protocol.
juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #4 
I  can  try to give  you some  support  after the first  time data collection in snow. You can either   show  the  csv  file over here  or you can  email  me  the  datas  csv  files  to factquestions@hotmail.com.
 What would help as well is the VO2  lactate information   more  from a  respiratory   information. So  if  your  VO2  dates  contain RF  and VE as well as  HR  than it can help  to have a  more  data based feedback    to   look at your  limiters. 

As mentioned in other places  I  will start a basic  information on  how NIRS  VO2  and lactate  can  supplement each other on  the one side, but as well where  the   combination will create  some initial confusion  if  we are only classically trained. 
xcskier

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 46
 #5 
I have done the test as per your suggestion. I will post the data in the "case studies" section.

I would be happy to do a cross-country skiing field test with NIRS, blood lactate and VO2
if I had access (or able to rent it) to a portable VO2 machine like Cosmed.

In the worst case, I will probably repeat a full test on a treadmill with rollerskis once the
skiing season is over in the spring.

Quote:
I  will start a basic  information on  how NIRS  VO2  and lactate  can  supplement each other on  the one side


This would be super useful. I will also be keeping a notebook of tests and experiments
(and observations) that I will do.
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