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juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
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Posts: 1,501
 #1 

I like to start a  series of thoughts here from some great data's sent to me by a SWINCO (Swiss innovation company ). customer..
 I  like  the datas as it is a  reminder on how we started  this ongoing journey  many  years back by using our common  knowledge  and  believes from VO2  and lactate testing and than first added a  simple additional data  collection (NIRS) information   into it. We  as well added  direct cardiac  feedback  from Physio  flow  and SEMG  and than had a complete overload  of data  and a very expensive  set up , which clearly  was  very useless  for any coaches out there or  for sure  for any practical use  for  athletes . 

BUT

We  needed  this   data collection  ability  before we  where able to  downsize  back  to where we  are now. One   or 2  small  simple NIRS  devices  ( MOXY )  and   I like to show  you how  this  work with all this data  collection  finally  paid  of  to have a very different picture  on  what we  can do in  any  activity planning.

We  are very  happy , that we did  this  and  we are  pretty sure it  is  still unique in the combination  and is  done in some  small pockets   world wide  still form some  out of the BOX  coaches and thinkers.
 Unfortunate  very few  of  the   Institutions   use  this  combination and therefor  often  still create   conclusion and speculation  due to  some datas  missing  to shine   more feedback's to many questions.

  Before  I give a very very short  feedback  and insight on the earlier   assessments ideas  a  WARNING

If  you  hate  or believe that I have  some  "pay  back"  against  lactate users  or VO2   equipment , than please not  even   start  this  series  as  it will be a   question and question  situation on   all what I did  and  why and where  I had  some   hard  discussions  with myself  and friends  on why we  did  what  we learned or  why  so many  still do it.  
I hope  the   readers  who  can handle  that , that they engage  and  come back    and  shoot  back if  I take some of my own  old  believes  apart as I like to keep  the same critical mind  for NIRS  and  all the other  things we  do. Only this  can open up more  questions  to get us ready to  do more  research  for possible answers. 

Below  a picture  some already   saw on the forum. This is a few  years back   in a  Swiss  seminar  where we  had  coaches  from different European  countries for the first ever  presentation of  all the toys  we used.

swiss present.jpg 

As a  summary:
It was a live presentation so people  could see live   what is going on  and we  could  show live  in certain situations how  we can see  changes  due to  different manipulations of  any of  the  physiological system.
What  you see on the picture is a cardiac live  feedback ,  a VO2 live feedback , blood sampling,  NIRS live feedback.
The beauty of  all this  live feedback is,  that we  can  really surprise initially  the  people. We  can manipulate, that we  have  suddenly a  VT1  or  VT 2  showing up on  the VO2  equipment, we can first create a VT2   and  after that  in a higher intensity a VT  1. We  can create a desaturation in a very low intensity  by showing a  drop in SmO2  when we never would  expect  it. We can increase  SmO2  when we never  expect it.
 We  can increase lactate  at the beginning and than  let it drop  some wherry later  to screw  up  thee lactate curve.
We  can increase  stroke  volume  or  drop it
 This  was  thee  reason  why we changed  from  calculated  power or intensity based training programs  to  actual  planned  physiological  simulations. 
So  we   would find a  strange  result  and had  no  clue  why so we  would start playing around  till we where able to  actually create the trend on the equipment.

Here just one off  many  as a  comparison of  two  world class cyclists.
yama gk comp 2.JPG 

And below  to  close  up the intro a set   of data s  synchronized  from all the toys  we used. Below  respiratory feed back   collected in Norway  and  presented  with a  SWISS/Italian  program  . VO2  equipment  and  lactate sampling

EH_VENT.png 
Below  the cardiac feedback during the  same assessment  where  they used    a Physio flow.

EH_CARDIO.jpg 

Followed  by  the  NIRS feedback,   where they used a Portamon.

EH_OxTRA.png 
 So  about  100'000  $  later  we had  the question on how  to use  this in the field  and  who  the heck  would use it anyway.

Well here  the picture  I love  most . 

Duncan  and Marcel  in the UK  on a  lonely  road   doing somebody never  did  before  and most likely not  will  do.
So  the   goal  was clear  :
 Can we downsize  from  all the hundreds  of data s,  so it is  easy to use , yes needs some brain work  and physiological open  thinking,  but  it is  or will be the  future  of  smart coaching  in fitness centers  and clubs  and personal  trainers.  
It may be  the difference between looks  from "outside" and looks  from inside  when you choose a  coach. The same  old Greek idea  applies here.
The unseen real  and the unreal seen  

Happy NEW  YEAR.


Marcel real.jpg 


juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #2 
Part 2  let's  work.
This  Swiss group  used a VO2  equipment , where they where able to integrate MOXy into the data collection and much more.
 So we ave VO2  datas , lactate datas  and  NIRS  datas.
 Here the overview

all VO2  datas.jpg 

The   fun  part over the next  few weeks  will be to sort  them all out  and  try to make  sense  on all this information based on physiological observation rather  than mathematical  calculations. or perhaps  both ?

I like to show  you  that   integration of NIRS means  to accept  certain  conflicts in data  interpretation ,   but  fail for the moment  to actually  accepts  this  conflicts by trying to answer  the open  questions.

So  any  very critical  questions  from my side is loud  thinking and not  an attack on what we see here or  to the group  allowing us  to   discuss  this  information on the forum.

Next I will split  the  actual three  "philosophies "  lactate  curve, VO2  feedback  and NIRS  data collection in this three separate    ideas  and we  go through on what we see, when using one or  the other  alone  standing.

I  hope  for feedback's on many  questions I will ask myself. 

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