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jschiltz

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Posts: 48
 #1 
I looked around some old forum posts and attempted to design my own stroke volume workout (two part).   Yesterday was workout #1, today was workout #2.

Workout #1 - (2) 10 minute efforts, followed by a series of 30 second efforts with 3:30 recoveries.  I chose the intensity of the efforts to be enough to decrease THB and not so hard to create an occlusion.

Workout #2 - the same (2) 10 minute efforts as workout #1 - followed by an additional 10 minute effort.  I was trying to find the point where SMO2 and THB are at their peak but HR is still pretty low.

I had a feeling shortly after starting Workout #2 that my intented stimulus of Workout #1 were unsuccessful.  My HR was approx the same instead of lower, and my THB continued to decrease.

Looking for some ideas to try.  Perhaps my I should add some additional stimulus for workout #1 (more efforts, higher temp in workout area, etc.)

I am still trying to understand the methodology for stroke volume work and this is my first attempt of trial and error. 

The last image below compares the first (2) 10 minute efforts of #1 and #2

sv 1.PNG  sv 2.PNG  sv compare.PNG   

  

 
Attached Files
xlsx jschiltz_-_SV_attempt_part_1.xlsx (185.28 KB, 2 views)
xlsx jschiltz_-_SV_attempt_part_2.xlsx (115.98 KB, 2 views)

juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #2 
Jason ,
 you are far ahead of the learning  curve  great to see.

I am still trying to understand the methodology for stroke volume work and this is my first attempt of trial and error.  

You are  slightly off  but  you  go the  first step option.
 2  option really. 1. You decide  today  to do a SV  workout.
 or
 You plan  one  for  tomorrow  so  the  workout  1  as in your case  has the intention to prepare  the physiological systems  for the planned  SV  for  tomorrow.
 
There are some interesting very simple  marker  to see  already in the morning, whether  you  have  your body successfully prepared.
 Key  word   resting HR  combined  with  HRV.
another one is your  " warm up"  respectively  your  calibration start time  you do  for  any workout  you have a very  clear target set.
 Don't  forget  some workouts  have to be simply  fun  so nothing needed, than nice weather  time  and fun.

look  this  4  graphs,  but look just   2 of  them.
4 diff  calibration.jpg 

Look  top left  and bottom right. Very easy  and clear  to see the very different  tHb reactions.. Now in this  athletes  case we know  every time  when we prepare a  SV  workout  which picture  we have to see now.
 Initially we  used  physio  flow  to be sure  and to be confirmed.


Here  how  a confirmation   would look like.
form  right to left  HR trends,  SV trend  EF %  trends. The brighter  color  belongs  together

Same workout  same  wattage

GK SV HR EF comp 2 intervall - Copy - Copy.jpg

T
his  just as a very   small inside  view, that  what we  discuss here and talk about is not  coming  from nowhere , there are  10 - 15 years  of  failure involved  till we had  some ideas  at least. So Jason after  1   you are well underway  and  do not worry  you will figure it out.

jschiltz

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Posts: 48
 #3 
Juerg,
I have been experimenting with different warmup/calibration routines and I think I like the 2x10min even though it takes a bit longer.

If I look at the physioflow images the HR image is hard to see, but the HR looks very similar but with higher SV and higher EF.

The image with the 4 graphs - it makes sense to me that if I see the trends indicated in the lower right then its a good day to do SV work.

Perhaps where I went wrong was I did monday strength training, tuesday hiit type work with intention to stimulate for a SV workout the next day, then today seeing if I was ready for SV workout.  

As it turns out the stimulus I provided with Monday might have created an opportunity yesterday that I missed.

As I continue to do the same warmup routine and keep notes on workouts performed in the previous few days I will start to see the patterns and hopefully understand better.

juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #4 
The image with the 4 graphs - it makes sense to me that if I see the trends indicated in the lower right then its a good day to do SV work.

Yes  that is  true. There is   some specif  situations , where we lit   that  HR  drops  and SV  goes  up  and  some where we like to maintain or if possible even increase HR as  an otehr gear  for a higher  CO. Lets see, whether I  can explain that better.  The same is  true in respiration .

HR  =  RF
SV = TV
 CO = VE
Depending on the  size  of heart  volume  and the  respiratory  lungs  volume, there is a  limitation of efficiency  for   TV  or SV  respectively more important  for filling time.. You like to  have  an optimal  filling  volume as it helps in the pre load    so   better EF %  in the heart or better  recoil  from elastic  components  form the rip  cage.
 The optimal filling time  and as  such the optimal  throw  out time is the  bets efficiency. So  if  you  breath  or  beat  far to fats  so that the time in between one breath and  one  heart beat is  too short  you loose  the optimal efficiency  and  the suddenly interesting idea  of  bigger is better is gone. Hope it makes sense.
Gunnar

Development Team Member
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Posts: 65
 #5 
Juerg wrote: There are some interesting very simple  marker  to see  already in the morning, whether  you  have  your body successfully prepared.
 Key  word   resting HR  combined  with  HRV.

What are we looking for here? I assume low HR and high HRV. Is this correct?


Then I have understood from this case that we are trying to find the load where Smo2 and Thb is at highest and HR as low as possible.  - would this not be at rest?
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