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Roger

Moderator
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Posts: 240
 #1 
Here's an article on Strength Training and Blood Flow Restricted Exercise

Link

This brings up a number of interesting questions.

- Can Moxy be used as a way to verify ischemia while minimizing the cuff pressure?
- Is external occlusion needed at all if Moxy is used to guide "Incomplete Recovery" or "No Recovery" workouts?
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #2 

Roger long overdue  respond on your  link here  and the use of MOXY. Reason. I had to wait till this semester  but next week  we have the PE teachers in  and  student and we run a grade 12 project on most effective way of using MOY in strength workout  and intervals when looking at the actual performance  changes.. We will have 4 categories of data collection and we try to get    as many  students involved in the assessment so we  may have  50 - 100 samples of assessment.
 In short the  assignment is.
 What recovery  strategy    ends with the best   performance in the 2 /3  and 4  rep.
 Question they try to answer :
 a) incomplete recovery  and we  will fix the incomplete recovery by a 50 %  of  baseline recovery from each prior  steep.
b) complete recovery  and we  use the second load   as the baseline level.
c) Overload highest pint  recovery and we will sue the second  load  overload  SmO2 trend  as the   target to reach.
 d)  overload back down to base line  and again the second load  will be the base line to aim for.

So the load will be  controlled by SmO2  but we will look at reaction of tHb as it may explain  failure   in the  workout.
 Goal : Integrate MOXY   in the school sport, as Brian already has done in Ontario schools   so kids combine  physiology , high tech   fun on a screen and motivation together with individual training loads.

 So not  5 sets  15 reps   1 min break in between  just simple  physiological feedback  fro the target we have.
 We can plan workout's  based on metabolic  targets ( SmO2 trends  or on delivery limitations tHb trends.
Will see where the kids like to publish this fun  semester work . Thanks  to Earl ( my goat partner) ( carrier prep teacher )  and Mr.Kitamura, the PE teacher  for the opportunity  they give  to this kids.
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #3 
Short update.  on our   student  fun project.
 Yesterday we started the  pre- phase of getting all set up  and  look for  the PE  class, which will be used.
 There  are some additional  sections we  look for.
 1.  In strength training , if I like to create  high contraction speed  I  am better on using low  weights than heavy weight ??? !!!

2.  The  trend in SmO2  will be  more or less the trend in restoring CrP.  So a very    " anaerobic ", or better O2 independent, energy source is really very O2  dependent. as it needs O2 for restoration. 

 3. If that may be true we should clearly see the best  performance  in a recovery which would be  the  reach of the highest point  after a load in SmO2    " overreach"

So will be fun to look at this.
 IF and only IF  SmO2   under  stable pH   situation" so pH  not too  low  so not  below 7 ) down is  basically a mirror  of CrP  recovery so  we  really  can use   MOXY  for an optimal  planning of load  and recovery  ideas.
This means, that  we  can manipulate pH  to a certain extend over ???? as well we have to avoid in some cases a too long arterial occlusion. ( which  would   get  against the idea of occlusion training  with  compression   systems.
 What this   idea, ( which shows  up  every 15 +- years [wink] has to  add is most likely a better control over  SmO2    so we can avoid some of the negative  side effect occlusion  workouts can create.
fitbyfred

Development Team Member
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Posts: 168
 #4 
Thanks, Roger/Juerg.

Here's a regular client session I coached earlier this week using the MOXY info. To guide the reps, sets and exercise selection, I monitor the BFR effect (currently without cuff) the loading has on the tHb at start of load AND the reaction at end of load PLUS the post-load periods. There's plenty of practical info on the image below, and I'm keen to discuss with anyone interested. 

MOXY Guided LE Workout.png 

 
Attached Files
csv FBF_MOXY_LE_Workout.csv (246.90 KB, 28 views)

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #5 
Okay  I am somewhat  behind. Hmmm lag time like  lactate testing ( smile) Here  an add  on to Fred's great  contribution on here.

Like to try to make a summary.

 1. There is still a strange  perception out there , even in highly  exercise  practical groups, that there is a   difference between strength  workouts like  1 max rep  or   a few  heavy lifts  and  an endurance  load like a  60 min TT  and so on. This is  based on the classical  notion of  anaerobe  and aerob  and the   alacticid and lacticid    ideas.
 Thanks to great  research this part is  over  now  and we  can focus  more on how  we    can try to improve  delivery  and or utilization, depending where the weakest link is.
.
 Some how  we got stuck , that this  are different  worlds.
 Reality is  , that  both activities simply need  to have  energy  and the end product they have to keep balanced  is ATP. The ultimate  energy to  be able  to  do this is  coming   from O2.
. So it is less the problem  on  what is used  but much rather how it can be delivered.
 This is  where the challenge  comes in.
In  strength there is  most often a delivery problem as  the delivery is not   activated  enough and or  it is not sufficient  enough for the demand  and  or  the delivery is  reduced  or interrupted  due to muscle contraction.

So when  planning a  strength workout we , as in any other workout , set a target  on what I may like to achieve.

First  big   question.
 a)  do I like to  make an inter muscular   coordination workout 
or
 b)  an intra muscular coordination workout

 This is crucial , as  in case of a)  I have to try to reduce  or  if possible even try to avoid an arterial occlusion intensity.
 In b [wink] I may  exactly target this.
 Than the question is , whether I  I like to integrate  respiration  to prolong  or to shorten the workout  with the same load.
 Below an example we showed  some times  ago . A  workout ) ( 1 leg squatting )  with and without respiratory manipulation.. You can see  how the duration of the same load  can  change.
r leg spiro.jpg 


This  example is courtesy  of  Nick McLean  from his masters  work  at the UBC campus in Kelowna

Now  respiration has a direct influence on the O2  bio availability.
 Unfortunately what looks great  on SmO2 increase   may be actually not great  for the performance.
 And increase in SmO2  is not   always a good  sign  at all.
 Here a  case study  first on just SmO2  trend  and EtCO2  levels.
resp.jpg 

Now  is this a nice theory  or can we show  this with blood values support.
 Here a  case  study courtesy  to the red Bull seminar and one of our  case study  discussion  for MOXY experts.
Exercise  squatting   of two people to failure. 3.jpg

Here the two trends
3 3.jpg 

 Here a  small jump  to the   reaction we played  with O2  diss curve.

3333.jpg

Here  the blood values
3333333.jpg 

 Look at the   lactate values  and the EtCO2.  
 For a  very simple  explanation for coaches.

 You can increase lactate  to incredible high values  as long you can balance H +  situation. It is not the lactate , which  creates  some  failure but a combination of  H +  and  most likely  some  additional    metabolites or substances Pi  and so on. ( still  discussion going  on ). What we know  from very practical   examples is, that when we  can stay  normocapnic  and or even  have a chance to  go for a  while towards  hypocapnic,  we  can nicely create stimuli  for MCT  1  and MCT  4  ideas.
 As well, we  can create a very different load  situation. For  cyclists a  simple try out. Get your client to ride on MaxLass or what ever you believe in  , simply try to create a stable lactate  level.
  for  5 - 8 min.  Than  stay on this level  and simple  breathe  deeper  and slower  so you shift the O2  disscurve to the right  and test lactate after  3 - 4 min. What   is the result ?
 Than do the opposite . Go Max Lass  intensity  and breath hypocapnic   check what  the lactate is doing  now.?
 Than add MOXY  and you can see  why we simply can't use  a  SmO2 trend  and argue  when it  does  down  lactate goes up  and when it goes up lactate goes  down. Would be nice ,but it is not always the case.  Now in Fred's case here  a  short start and i WILL BE BACK.
  Here  an overview  of the total data collection done by Fred.

all smo2  tHb with P1 P2 P 3.jpg 
Now  without explanation as  the regular reader is  becoming an expert already  a  closer look at the P1  stimulation  and the P3  stimulation. can you see the difference   the load created  and what   do you stimulate in P1   or  what is different in the stimulation?
 P1  here with a closer look.
P1 close look  jpg.jpg 


And here P2  closer look.
P 3  close look.jpg 
Have  fun  and see the  potential in quality control  on your client. It is  very different and a great  progress, we just need some time  to   get our head around changes.


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