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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Again the question on how  do they relate  with each other.
 True    they  will relate  n one or the other way, as all look for some similar information. This is  to look
  at intensities, where the body  may start  to  look for   help in the  ATP  maintenance   besides the manly   o2  supported   metabolic  options..
 The   question is, what  motivates  us to look for that.
 The second  question is, whether this info  to find  "aerobic"  and "anaerobic"  intensity   is useful  and for what.
, As well, whether  all the different ideas  give  us  enough information to  get feed backs  on why this  " magical" threshold  may  have changed over night.
 When we look  on the base  idea  of survival, than we  may agree, that   to survive  we can give up a lot of   sections in our body  without a problem   on the survival rate.
  Reducing O2  supply  to  many  body areas like legs  and  arms  will still allow us  to survive.
  So when we push   our  total body to a limitation, than we  may in fact see  the first  reactions of a potential O2  delivery problem in our  extremities. The main reaction in a  very active  O2    sucking extremity  followed by body  parts  muscles  not heavily involved in the activity     and than   we may see   or feel  a reaction in more vital systems.
 So no wonder, that MOXY  may give us the first time  since many tools  for testing got developed  a direct window into this  reaction  as we look at directly   at the   origin of potential change.
. So changes in the working muscle  all create some metabolic reactions. The integration of O2 independent ATP  production will create    substances like H +  , CO2,  and more  and as such   we will have some additional reaction  seen in respiratory respond  and or in  changes in   blood reactions ( lactate )
 So   the question is, whether  the different  threshold ideas may match up   or at least may be close.
  From the idea  the direct information should be  closer related to each other than the indirect  information's.
 So  respiratory  changes  VT  ( depending n Limiter)  and  MOXY reactions  both direct test  may be close  to each other compared  to  lactate  and or  other indirect information's.
  If  the limitation is   more  from  a central point of vie ( respiratory limitation ) than gas exchange and SmO2  will be closely related.
 If the limitation is    extremity , than  respiration can be a compensator  and  the  connection of SmO2 trend  and gas exchange will be different.
 This is as well the reason  why in some cases VT  and LT  are  closely related  and in other cases they  are completely  off ( all depends  on who   limits  and increases H +  ) and  who compensates  and  is able to  control H +  somewhat longer..
 So  as usual  when we have this ideas  we either wait  for a  study to  back us up or we search  for a study  who was already done.
  Here is an interesting one  supporting the idea  of using  MOXY  for individual training intensities.

Noninvasive determination of exercise-induced hydrodgen ion threshold through direct optical measurement

1.   Babs R. Soller1,

2.   Ye Yang1,

3.   Stuart M. C. Lee2,

4.   Cassie Wilson3, and

5.   R. Donald Hagan4

+ Author Affiliations

1.    1Department of Anesthesiology, University of Massachusetts Medical School, Worcester, Massachusetts; and 2Wyle Laboratories, 3JES Tech, and 4National Aeronautic and Space Administration Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas

1.    Address for reprint requests and other correspondence: B. R. Soller, Dept. of Anesthesiology, Univ. of Massachusetts Medical School, 55 Lake Ave North, Worcester, MA 01655 (e-mail:

*       Submitted 7 August 2007.

*       Accepted 14 December 2007.


The intensity of exercise above which oxygen uptake (V̇o2) does not account for all of the required energy to perform work has been associated with lactate accumulation in the blood (lactate threshold, LT) and elevated carbon dioxide output (gas exchange threshold). An increase in hydrogen ion concentration ([H+]) is approximately concurrent with elevation of blood lactate and CO2 output during exercise. Near-infrared spectra (NIRS) and invasive interstitial fluid pH (pHm) were measured in the flexor digitorum profundus during handgrip exercise to produce a mathematical model relating the two measures with an estimated error of 0.035 pH units. This NIRS pHm model was subsequently applied to spectra collected from the vastus lateralis of 10 subjects performing an incremental-intensity cycle protocol. Muscle oxygen saturation (SmO2) was also calculated from spectra. We hypothesized that a H+ threshold could be identified for these subjects and that it would be different from but correlated with the LT. Lactate, gas exchange, SmO2, and H+ thresholds were determined as a function of V̇o2 using bilinear regression. LT was significantly different from both the gas exchange threshold (Δ = 0.27 ± 0.29 l/min) and H+ threshold (Δ = 0.29 ± 0.23 l/min), but the gas exchange threshold was not significantly different from the H+ threshold (Δ = 0.00 ± 0.38 l/min). This initial study demonstrates the feasibility of noninvasive pHm estimations, the determination of H+ threshold, and the relationship between H+ and classical metabolic thresholds during incremental exercise.

Att 1  is a 5 min step test MOXY on vastus lat  and  one moxy on delta  pars acromialis  as a  bike test.
 look at the tHb respond  ( Trendline  average ) at the  end of the test Look at as well at the polynominal trend line.  att 2
 SmO2  drop in an inactive muscels    and tHb  drop would indicate a centrally  controlled  reduction in  blood  flow ( vasoconstriction) paired  with a reduction in O2    delivery in this  non essential area.
 SmO2  drop  with out  activity would rather indicate a   lower delivery  than a higher utilization  att 3  see  red  vastus lat  and green  delta  trend in SmO2 
att 4  polynominal SmO2.
Next up I will shwo you  how  we use  "delivery " trends  (tHb )    and  utilization tends  ( SmO2 )  to find individual  "zoning"  to  desige an individual  training  to stimmulate the  limiter  and or  stimmulate  the delivery   or the   utilization systems.

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