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ryinc

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 #16 
Thanks Juerg all the points make sense.

Two questions

If the same experiment is  done in what we  call  balanced    or homeostasis  zone  the  limiter would show  up  very easy    from this athlete.  So  same fun idea but use  the load  from your  5  th  step    after you did  the first  step  test.

Is this true of all limiters, or can you already see the limiter and that specific limiter will show up in this experiment? I will do the experiment anyway, i am just trying to understand what you are saying.

Next - in the graph with HR, SV, CO for lie, stand, jog, run. Where is swimming (very horizontal) and cycling (semi-horizontal) likely to show up - lets call it at pace equivalent to jogging? (Swimming highest SV, lowest HR then cycling in the middle, jogging lowest SV & highest HR?)
juergfeldmann

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 #17 
Ha ha  you  do not need a cook book.
 Here a  typical 5 min assessment we  do in Europe in fitness centers  to get a individual zoning  instead of a  calculated  zoning.  You have here a biased  graph  with  Red O2Hb (   blood cells  who carry  O2 )  Blue  deoygenated  Hb  so blood cells   with less O2  and  tHb as the result  of   Blue +  red Veyr easy to see where  the  load  was  changed and as long we have a decent reaction ability  where only  the Limiter  may be pushed  hard  but we  always  can compensate  you will always  see a  clear reaction in a  change in load. Once  we  need a lot of  help  from compensators, so they start to  have no  chance to  just  compensate , but as well have to work  hard than we loose often the clear feedback in load change. 5 min step  and  zoning no  colour.jpg 


Based on  the above info  you can easy find  the physiological intensities  for this person. ????
 Before  you look below  design  your  own  intensities .
 Three  intensities.
OXY ,  balanced  and de oxy.

5 min step  and zoning  explanation.jpg 
Now  to your  question.
 In  the  OXY  zone  what  can  you do ?
 This really if  you have the right answer is the most important   intensity  for  any  physiological training   Why ?

 The balanced   intensity has  a little bit of a limitation where nothing can be done against that limitation. but   you can  do  what ?

 The  worst l intensity  from a   point that you can  have  a  choice  to   actual  choose what you like to  do.
  Why. ?  To your   SV  question.

 Well  could be  but the key  really is , that  it  depends  not just on position but as well on intensity  you may   be in different positions.



Stuart percival

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 #18 
Thanks everyone for all your great analysis

Couple of things
I have noticed a couple of people who are maybe not happy about how coaches don't respond and maybe look just for answers. To begin with I just could not even start to add any value as I was so new to all this only 4/5 weeks ago

I'm really busy so any spare time I have I'm reading over old case studies so I can finally join in soon

So I appreciate all the help with my case studies - I've tested more athletes but purposely did not put the data in here - when I'm ready I'll put them up with answers (hopefully ) rather tha questions

I'm learning fast so I'll join in soon
juergfeldmann

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 #19 
Stuart. 
 Thanks for your nice feedback. We or at least many of the regular readers really really appreciate your openness to share datas  with us . This is not something I am used to have so freely and I  do this since 40 years.In fact,  I often read interesting ideas in great  publications and they sound very familiar. We even have graphs  from  forums like here or  the fact -  forum  taken  and  the name of a great university or  website is behind , but no origin. This makes us  very proud, that we see this  and see that once in a  while we make some possibly usable statements.
So  you did much more  than what is usual and,  as you an see,  triggered some hopefully usable discussions  with some better ( hopefully ) feedback's  from my side and some weak feedback's  from my side. What  is much more important  is that we get ideas and assessments discussed  ,which are not done or collected  from us , to keep the  information free of possible  manipulations and we use what we have,  see and make out of  them. Thanks as well to all the  great direct  and critical constructive  questions.
 I wish we  would have done this for many  classical Ideas we  all learn  and  use or used ,  which would have saved us  from many myth and constructed theories, which still  many try to defend and therefor so often slow down our own  progress.
Stuart percival

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 #20 
I do have a question though

How do I create a bias graph ? I cannot see the data in any CSV file I need to make this ? Hhb and OHB
I just have tHB
CraigMahony

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 #21 
Juerg. A question about the 5 minute assessment at the European Fitness Centers. Each stage only last 30 seconds. Yet homeostasis is not reached for 8 minutes from what I have read in some other posts. So how can a 30 second ramp protocol give us what we are looking for?
CraigMahony

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 #22 
Stuart, to get OHb multiply tHb by the SmO2 percentage. OHb = SmO2 X tHb. Then subtract the OHb from tHb to get HHb.

You need to pick the point you want to start the biased graph from and set those points to zero. So make some extra columns on the spreadsheet. Lets say your calculated OHb is in column E and you are starting at row 30. Then in the column you are using for you biased data '=E30 - $E$30. Do the same for HHb. Then drag the excel corner down to fill the column. Each Cell from row 30 should have =E(row number) - $E$30. Same for HHb. You then have your data to make a biased graph.

Hope this helps.
bobbyjobling

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 #23 
Hi Craig, I think it's a 5 minute per step assessment. Each step is lasting for 300 seconds.
juergfeldmann

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 #24 
Craig  each station  is 300 seconds  ( Look carefully on the biased graph  and the   Intensity graph  with the  steps 2 300 600  and so on. so  they use a 5 min step test This is   based on some ideas  like Saltin  et all the shortest  step needed to get a decent   i  possibly not optimal reaction time. . I do very often 10 min steps in calibration  ideas , but  no cook book  as I look  how the  different  feedback react,  and may go longer  or  change some   ideas to see possible early trends  and reactions. For a  center   they needed to make a kind of a  compromise ( Business versus  physiology )  and decided  on a  5min  protocol. So  normally  5 min calibration   followed by  5 min steps   than 5  min de calibration  to see   if possible limiters  .  Swinco Switzerland is in the midst   to  have a  software ready  for   assessments including    interpretations  and  limiters but as well a   actual training  software  for live training feedback   for   fitness centers  so you  have a  group sessions  like a spinning class   20 or more people  all working out together but every body  actually  on an individual  physiological   guided feedback. A very different  approach on having fun in a group but still getting your optimal individual    stimulation. It is already done  since a few years but now ready  to move into the  fitness  level of   forward thinking  centers  for personal training in strength  workouts  and for group training   of  any sorts  of  options and activities.
juergfeldmann

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 #25 
Stuart the biased  graph  was a  small project  we  had here   with our  high school students  so  they  created this section and idea  for our  own internal ideas  as we  love the biased idea  to see better  immediate  occlusion trends  or   other  shifts. It looks  like the  new Software  from SWINCO    will include  this   views  as well.
. You can  see it  as well with tHb  and SmO2 but needs some  training  to imagine it.  The biased is nice  if we look in   workouts  every time   new  when we start a new load  as  an overall view  sometimes  changes  the impression as it is biased  form the start  and not from the " new  " start of a new load , where the SmO2  and tHb  may be  different  due to integration of a higher CO  and VE.
juergfeldmann

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 #26 
Ha ha  thanks  to all the   feedback. That's when you are  going  first    answer  or question and than next  and  not read  first all. Thanks to all the  help  that's  what the  forum  suppose to be.
Great team work.
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