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Development Team Member
Posts: 1,501
To make  a blunt  statement.
 You make  progress with your  coach not because of the   lactate testing but  because he uses  his  experience.
 6  x  / week training in a decent  type  of load  and recovery   will create some progress in  most of  us.
 In fact    with  the  performance  you  for the moment  show  you may be able to reduce  to 4  x  / week and make  more progress.
 Classical  marathon runners  over train  very often.
You most likely avoid  poking  for blood and simply   go with his  experience  and your feedback.
Than  wait  and see, whether your coach may   or may not   start looking for newer technology and  than combines  his  experience  with what we  actually can see.

There is  a   often seen and understandable     fear  of new  technology  and it only make sense  to spent money on any of this devices , when we are ready to  dig in and accept  the fact  that we  have some time  with a new learning curve.
 Otherwise  money is wasted  as we  go  with  what we know  and not  what we may have to change. For  some coaches  it  is  too early  to move to newer technology and  may need some time. That does not mean  that they  are not successful. Best is  as  coach  and athlete a re a  team  to discuss and make a plan on where   to go.

Development Team Member
Posts: 1,501
Got a nice  and fair  mail after my  blunt  statement. Some  points  where personnel  but one good point   and challenge was .
 Can I offer  any  studies where they  looked at the  4 mmol  ideas and MLSS. First there are many  many studies since  G. Maders  idea  on 4 mmol  including his own critical view  I showed many times on  why we  do not have  LT  but only a nice  theory  we  still try to defend.
 But there are newer studies  for  younger  lactate users. 
 Here a great  one  just done lately. I know  we all ( including me )  often have the  tendency  to  to  so called  selective reading. If  the studies fits  to us,  it is a great study,  if not  we   try to ignore it,  otherwise we have to start thinking. 

Time to exhaustion at the onset of blood lactate accumulation in runners with different athletic ability 

Jordan Santos-ConcejeroI,II; Cristina GranadosII; Jon IrazustaII; Iraia Bidaurrazaga-LetonaII; Jon Zabala-LiliII; Susana GilII

IUniversity of Cape Town, UCT/MRC ESSM, South Africa
IIUniversity of the Basque Country UPV/EHU, Spain.


OBJECTIVE: To characterize the physiological responses of runners of different athletic ability at the velocity at onset of blood lactate (VOBLA) and to determine if 4 mmol·L-1 represents the same relative exercise intensity for every runner.
METHODS: Eleven trained and twelve well-trained runners completed two running tests on a treadmill: first, a maximal incremental lactate test to calculate the VOBLA (Test 1), and then another one at the corresponding VOBLA until exhaustion (Test 2). Gas exchange and heart rate (HR) were continuously measured and plotted as a percentage of time to exhaustion in Test 2 (TET2). The individual lactate threshold velocity (VLT) and lactate concentration ([La-1]LT) were calculated according to the D-max method. 
RESULTS: VOBLA and VLT were higher in well-trained runners (P<0.001). [La-1]LT was <4 mmol·L-1 in the well-trained runners (P<0.001), but not in trained runners. Well-trained runners were faster at VOBLA than at VLT(P<0.001). Well-trained runners ran a shorter TET2 than the trained runners (P<0.05). Moreover, well-trained runners presented a higher respiratory rate at 50, 80 and 90% of TET2 and VO2 at 20-100% of TET2 (P<0.05). TET2 was inversely correlated (P<0.01) with VOBLA and positively with personal best 10-km performance (P<0.01). VOBLA was positively correlated with the %VO2max in Test 2 (P<0.01). The standard value (4 mmol·L-1) for the concentration of blood lactate appears to represent a different exercise intensity for runners of different athletic ability.


VOBLA may not be accurated for programming running training sessions or for performing an evaluation of aerobic capacity.

Keywords: Athletes, OBLA, fatigue, exercise intensity, performance.


The determination of blood lactate concentration ([La-]) during exercise has been traditionally used as an important factor for the estimation of workload intensity in training exercise1. The maximal exercise intensity which elicits a constant [La-] over time, more specifically a rise lower than 1 mmol·L-1 in the last 20 minutes of a constant work rate test of 30 minutes, has been defined as the maximal lactate steady-state (MLSS)2. MLSS represents the highest intensity of exercise at which a balance exists between the rate of lactate production and lactate clearance3,4.

The MLSS has been proposed as a useful tool for the evaluation of aerobic capacity, training intensity prescription and the prediction of exercise performance1. However, the technique required for the accurate determination of the MLSS is complex and time-consuming, as 3 to 5 constant work-rate tests have to be performed on different days5. As a result, several authors have recommended the use of single day tests for the indirect determination of MLSS3,6.

During running exercise, a lactate concentration of 4 mmol·L-1 was reported to be associated with the MLSS7and consequently, different researchers have proposed the use of the 4 mmol·L-1 value as a reference value for the MLSS8,9. This value of 4 mmol·L-1, first proposed by Mader et al in 197610, was later termed as the onset of blood lactate accumulation (OBLA)11. Some studies have reported that the exercise intensity which induces an optimum qualitative stimulus should elicit a steady-state [La-] of approximately 4 mmol·L-112, and therefore OBLA exercise intensity has been adopted by coaches all over the world as a useful index of training status and fitness3).

However, several researchers are against the utilization of OBLA as an indirect marker for the MLSS13,14, because [La-] corresponding to MLSS may be reduced as a result of aerobic training15. In addition, it is acknowledged that the 4 mmol·L-1 value does not take into account inter-individual variability in the MLSS16. Thus, use of the OBLA as universal index for accurately estimating aerobic capacity, prescribing training intensity or a predicting performance, may have important limitations.

Currently, it is unclear if relative exercise intensity corresponding to OBLA is similar in athletes of different levels or training status. Thus, the main purpose of this study was to investigate the physiological responses at OBLA exercise intensity and consequently, to ascertain if the 4 mmol·L-1 value for lactate concentration represents the same relative exercise intensity in runners of different athletic ability. These results will assist us in determining if the OBLA index could be used to design and program running training sessions independently of the runner’s athletic level.






Development Team Member
Posts: 28
Yes - coach is main factor in my progress and doing lactate testing was his idea to get additional information on zones.
I initially trained 4 times a week and during last 2 years slowly moved to 5 days a week and then 6. Main reason - to get better marathon results you need to have higher mileage (build endurance) and have quality training - very hard to do with 4 days and hectic life, but 6 days its much easier to spread the load over the week.
Its very hard for local trainers to play with new technology, since they usually dont have money to buy it - in my case I'm trying different technologies and if something works then I could work with coach to incorporate it.

Development Team Member
Posts: 1,501
I  still hope we get some  feedback from VO2 users  like Stuart  or others.
 We now  have his VC  and we have  his  TV.
 Now  question.
 If  I  have a CO    which is  HR  x SV.
  and I have an ejection fraction  from  30 %  of  SV.
  What does  that mean  for the client  and  is  that a  good situation.
30 %  EF  would be  example . 100 ml  EDV ( end diastolic volume ) and  30 ml  SV = 30 %  EF
  CO = VE
 HR = RF
 SV=  TV
EF %  =  ????
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