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Nkrause

Development Team Member
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Posts: 49
 #1 
Hi All,

I've been reading all the wonderful threads recently and learning tons so I figured it was my turn to contribute. I haven't done an assessment in awhile but I knew from previous assessments posted here that my main issue was breathing. I've been using a Spirotiger regularly the past 3 months, not doing anything complicated, just trying to increase the rate and time that I can maintain a steady breathing rhythm at. I completed the 5/1/5 assessment yesterday which also include my first attempt at a RIP assessment at the end. It didn't go as well as I would have liked as my Garmin computer that I use to read the values from the Moxy monitor died just as I was about to start and I had to go based on feel. Steps started at 100 watts, and increment by 50 watts. I completed 6 steps and stopped halfway through the 7th step, the first at 250 watts. Subsequently after a few minutes rest I completed a RIP assessment. I did 3 steps of around 30 seconds, all out, with 2 minutes rest in between.
 image.png
Here's a graph of the assessment from beginning to end (it doesn't look as pretty as Juerg's unfortunately). I've also attached the .csv file for the assessment to this post.

A note on the rest period, while I tried to maintain the same resting position during the 1 minute breaks, the seat on the ergometer would sometimes move on me. While I was trying to hold my legs bent, at a 45ish degree angle, sometimes they would slip lower or higher as the seat moved on me.   

I'll post some more detailed thoughts tomorrow, but my initial impressions are as follows. Whereas in previous 5/1/5 assessments my THb value would drop consistently throughout, in this one they do increase as the piece goes on. That suggests that the spirotiger training has been helping, anecdotally breathing is much easier during a workout, however at the last step, finding a breathing rhythm proved difficult, in large part because my core felt fatigued. 

With regards to the RIP at the end, the major thing I note is that my Sm02 values don't decrease. I haven't done any intensity or interval training the last couple months, so I didn't expect to produce any amazing results, but I'd assume this suggests my ability to deload my Hemoglobin is not great at the moment.

 
Attached Files
csv TIP_and_RIP_March_16.csv (42.73 KB, 12 views)

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #2 
Nik  , Thanks  for this great  case study.
 I will look at it closer  and we  can than  have a  discussion. Where or  on what muscles  did  you fixed the MOXY.?
 Now  here a suggestion. I will sent you three more MOXY's  and   placement  as we like to check as well intercostal muscles. Than we  have to look  closer  at Spiro Tiger  and rowing  and  core  as it is a fundamental  part. Check out Xeno Mueller  as one of the  rare  rowers  looking very in depth on how to breath  during rowing.
 I like to have a great  rowing assessment  done  with you as I know  you  are   very good with this. So    2 MOXY on leg  1  on upper body  arm   and 1  intercostal . I will as well sent you a peripedal software if  you do not  have one so we can have all 4  MOXY's synchronized  including HR. Do you have a windows  system  to run it. If not  I can as well sent a  small tablet we use  for   rowing  and or other ideas.  Cheers   and I will be back.
 /
Nkrause

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 49
 #3 
Hi Juerg,

The moxy was placed on the left leg on the vastus lateralis, about midway up. I do have a windows system to run the peripedal software on, and I have read as much as I can about Xeno Muller and his rowing and breathing. I've only recently felt that my Spirotiger workouts were consistent enough to begin focusing on breathing while I erg. I've been trying to focus on inhaling while I'm on the drive phase of the stroke and exhaling while I'm on the recovery. Its definitely a change from my previous pattern and I'm not consistent with it yet. I have however noticed that warming up with the Spirotiger for 5-7 minutes before a workout on the erg, really makes my breathing much more consistent while using the rowing machine. Pretty excited going forward as I feel I'm just starting to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. Lots to learn!
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #4 
Check  respiration frequency  per stroke  rate  so we can  start working on RF  and TV. Remember that the diaphragm is the  key core muscle in any sport  so we need  activity  of it , when the    power  has to move through leg  core arms. This  gives you a  hint , when you   have to breath in.
Nkrause

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 49
 #5 
Hi Juerg, I've noted that my breathing frequency per stroke is highly dependent on how hard I'm rowing at an individual stroke rate. If I'm rowing at rate 22 and holding 1:51 on the ergometer, I have to double up my breathing during the stroke, it feels as though I'm not strong enough with my core to push hard and take a deep breath at the same time. If the pace is lower around 1:59 I can match my breathing rate to my stroke rate and hold the pace just fine. While poking around the internet I found the following article. I just thought I'd highlight some key points as it has some interesting ideas. 
Quote:
Experienced rowers tend to confine their breathing to two main patterns; i) one expiration per drive and one inspiration during recovery (1:1), or ii) one complete breath during the drive and one complete breath during recovery (2:1). Research has shown that tidal volume (the volume of each breath) is constrained above a certain power output, with further increases in ventilation being brought about by increasing breathing frequency3.

I'd presume that the stronger an athletes breathing muscles are, the higher power output they can sustain while maintaining decent Tidal Volume. I think the key for learning when to breathe is the following, and seems very similar to what I've heard Xeno Muller talk about with regard to breathing (though please correct me if I'm wrong!)
Quote:
The pre-catch breath is important for maintaining the safe transmission of force, because the structural stability of the rib cage and lower back are affected by the pressures inside the chest and abdominal cavities, respectively. During the drive, the muscles of the trunk brace against the partially inflated lungs, allowing the internal pressures within the chest and abdomen to increase; this stiffens the trunk. Failure to maintain adequate internal pressures (because of an inadequate lung volume) may lead to an increased risk of rib stress factures and low back injury
.


Nkrause

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 49
 #6 
Just to add another little tidbit about breathing and rowing I found. Here's an interview with Drew Ginn (multiple Olympic gold medallist) about rowing and training. At about 28 minutes in he talks about recovering from a back injury and a change in his breathing. In particular he mentions that he went from breathing through the rib cage to breathing through the belly. Using the diaphragm was really key for him. Recuperating from the injury required that he change his breathing, by breathing through the belly and actually found an improvement. In particular he talks about a change in demand during a race from being starved for oxygen when not breathing correctly to instead having to deal with a load in the muscles instead once he was breathing through the belly. Very interesting stuff!
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #7 
Nice  input    on this  topic.
 Breathing  and in particular  " core stability" is a super interesting   topic, when we look in fitness in general.
 Six  packs  and looks  dramatically outweights  reality on core strength.
 The second interesting  part is , that even as we  type this ,there are very great  and influential  coaches  and exercise physiologists out there , strongly  educate  people, that respiration or the respiratory  system  as  such is never a limitation in healthy people.

 So it is nice to see, that some practical adjustment and some feed backs  from  certain  people  may at least  start an open discussion in this direction.
 Here some  small  thoughts  to it.
 If  we talk a battle with  historical ideas on lactate,  wait ans see how we  will have an interesting battle  with  core muscles  and  ideas.
 

Journal of Physiology (1997), 505.2, pp.539-548

Contraction of the human diaphragm during rapid

postural adjustments

P. W. Hodges *, J. E. Butler, D. K. McKenzie and S. C. Gandevia t

Prince of Wales Medical Research Institute, Sydney, Australia and *Faculty of Health

Science, The University of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia

 

Diaphragm Recruitment during Nonrespiratory Activities

FADI AL-BILBEISI and F. DENNIS McCOOL

Departments of Medicine, Brown University Medical School, and Memorial Hospital of Rhode Island, Pawtucket, Rhode Island

Core Stability from the Inside Out

The core stabilization concept keeps being a hot topic for discussions. After more than a decade of core-training frenzy there is still very little evidence that core-training actually produces any positive effects. There is no universally accepted definition of what the make-up and function of the core is.

It all started with the Transversus Abdominis and the abdominal hollowing theory, where people were instructed to pull the belly-button in towards the spine when exercising. It has since been shown that abdominal bracing (tensing the abdominal wall as if preparing for being punched in the stomach) is superior to abdominal hollowing in regards to providing stability for the lumbar spine. Abdominal bracing is good, but it is still approaching the core from the outside in. The abdominal wall is the focus of the training. Real core activation has to come from the inside out.

Postural activity of the diaphragm is reduced in humans when respiratory demand increases

Paul W Hodges, Inger Heijnen, and Simon C Gandevia

Prince of Wales Medical Research Institute and University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia

Corresponding author P. W. Hodges: Department of Physiotherapy, The University of Queensland, Brisbane, QLD 4072, Australia. Email: p.hodges@shrs.uq.edu.au

Received April 27, 2001; Accepted August 29, 2001.

 

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