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ryinc

Development Team Member
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Posts: 369
 #1 
What I think is becoming clearer to me (i think i was confused in the past) is that we need to make a distinction between respiration manipulation vs respiration training:

Respiration manipulation - use of respiratory system to cause some target physiological change - for example a shift in the dissociation curve to play with the bio availability of 02 etc.

Respiration training - actually training the respiratory muscles, technique, endurance, strength etc. 

So for example, a drop in Sm02 as a result of shifting the dissociation curve might demonstrate a respiration manipulation, but not necessarily respiratory training?

Now my questions are:
  1. We have the live indicators (Sm02, tHb on a priority or non-priority muscle, HR) to see when a respiratory manipulation is successful. What live indicators do we have available to tell whether respiratory training is effective? For example, i seem to recall mention of Jiri putting Moxy on intercostal muscles - how is this done practically? What else could we use/see?
  2. Is there any overlap between respiratory manipulation and respiratory training? In other words when respiratory manipulations are performed does this most likely provide any respiratory training benefit as well or is it coincidental or even possibly detrimental?
  3. Can somebody refer me to a resource (book/website etc) that provides the principles for respiratory training (I'm not asking on the forum for training advice to be discussed just a referral to a credible resource.
There has been a lot of discussion on respiration recently so i am sure other forum members will have questions too. 



juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #2 
Annotate  chef  in the kitchen  and a  place  I would  go  for  specific  food .

Respiration manipulation - use of respiratory system to cause some target physiological change - for example a shift in the dissociation curve to play with the bio availability of 02 etc.

Respiration training - actually training the respiratory muscles, technique, endurance, strength etc. 

You  got it  and this is not just  for respiration, this is  for cardiac  workouts for  coordination  workout s  for  strength and   mental  and all  we  can do.

Here a few  simple  example.
 Yo  do a  simple  biceps  curl  with your   arm in neutral  zero position,  so  arm  besides  your  body  and  you  just move only in the elbow  and you have a  supination in  your  forearm  for the biceps  curl.
Your  peak   weight you can lift  from  the  elbow  0  to elbow  120  flexion is 50 kg.
Now in  your  activity  you need  50 kg  to be ale  to  do the motion  you   have to  do. So not  a lot  of options  than  go all out.
 So   the weight will force  you  to   work in peak performance and you have no chance  to  really manipulate anything.
 Now  due  to the change in  angel  and  leverage   in the  0 - 120  degree m ROM  you  have   section  where  you could lift more weight, but as  you have to go through the full range  the choice is not there as  the weight is given.
Now  you can " manipulate"  the workout by simply not going to a full   extension  and now you can lift more weight  so you can challenge the biceps in angels , where  50 kg is not  enough of a challenge. You not   just  can  do  that  you can change  your  shoulder  angle position to integrate  the long biceps  head into the workout   and you can go in a  neutral  forearm position to add  for example the brachioradialis  and so on.
 So  you ca make a  decision  to  manipulate or you can make an effort  to try to   gain more  strength over the full range.
Again it is all about  what is your goal  and  do you need the full range in your activity or not.

 Now in respiration.
 If  you see in an  assessment or in a  workout that  at a certain  intensity  you  create a respiratory limitation (not a  metaboreflex) you  reached a limitation and  you  as well loose control  as the  limiter will dictate now  your performance and not you.
So  at  that limitation you  may have a VE  of  100 l/min a  TV  of  2.5 liter  and   therefor a  RF  of  40.
So  you can imagine if you would have the ability  to move  for example 150 l/min.
 You  cud  now manipulate  the  reaction in this  workout. By  VE  100 l/min  you    will see a  tHb increase (CO2  [wink]  up  and a  delayed  recovery of  SmO2 .
Add on:  delayed    recovery  will than change the interval  you may   have done.

 Now  if  you  have  150 VE.  you  can  if  you like  create  the forced  100 l/ min workout  if that is your goal , but you as well can avoid it and   stimulate some other  ideas.

So    respiratory training allows  you  to   open up  much more  options  for  targeted physiological simulations.

Now  as better  your  respiration is  trained  as more additional options you  can add  with increase of loads  for example.
If you  are  not very well trained  than you have to  reduce  the loads,  so you  have a  chance to manipulate.
 Another practical example  fore  cycling for example. If  you are in  an  aero position , you may reduce, due to the position  your  TV,  but you may increase RF  by the same  load.
 Now  you may  create a  respiratory limitation.   and you have no  choice   due to the position. If  you go  out of  the aero position  you may now  increase  your TV  and therefor  by the same wattage  you now   do not  have a respiratory limitation and  you  can push  and may create a  local  muscular limitation. So  the position  can  decide whether you are  aware  what you may like to  stimulate by the same wattage.

Summary :

Respiration   is a  big system  and you can  easy train it on its own  or integrate in your  activity. Well  at the end of  the day  this is the goal  that you can integrate  respiration  into your sport  and use  it  to play  some  much more different sounds  during workouts.
 Remember a  workout  should be inefficiency, where as a race  should be super  efficient.
 (As usual ,exceptions you like to train efficiency sometimes  as well )  I will  show on another   thread  the idea son  cardiac   manipulation.

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