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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #1 
The discussion , whether  the respiratory system  can be a limitation is ongoing form many people. We discussed this in depth  from all sides  on the FaCT Forum 5 - 10 years back.
 Nevertheless we still  connect with people, ready to simply say : no way respiration is never a limitation in healthy people For us te discussion is mainly over. The  2 or perhaps three groups remain the same  after all this years and the  argumentation for and against is the same as well.
For people and readers interested to see how long this discussion is going on, go back to researchers like Kutshkin 1983,, Gallagher 1985 Mader 1991 Sliwinsky 1991 Laghi 1995 Ker and Schultz 1996 to name many of the interesting people we never hear anything on this side of the great water. Does that mean it is not existing ?
The second big question is :
 When we test somebody on a leg press equipment and look his progress for his next marathon run versus we test somebody on a treadmill to look for his progress  in a marathon run . What would you prefer to be tested at ?
So  I like to  ask some questions to all readers, whether you are a believer that respiration can be a limitation or you think no it is never a limitation.

The most common argument we have is :
 The respiration or ventilation never reaches the level the person can do in a MMV ( Maximal Minute Ventilation test )

Q :  How do you test a MMV ?
Okay, If you google than they may tell you , that they test for 15 seconds and  multiply with 4 so you have the 1 MMV.
Q: Why do they not test for one minute.
Answer is , that people would hyperventilate and would pass out.
Q: how scientific is that testing something for 15 seconds and assuming  that x 4 will be the result you get when  you keep going  ?
Q. I have 4 runners all can run 13 seconds over 100 m.
 Result. All will have 52 seconds over 400 m ???

Next up :
 We have the  same 4 runners.
 same  13 seconds over 100 m .
 So  did we actually agreed on the 52 seconds. hmmm why not ?
 We all agree that 15 sec all out breathing x 4 will be the end result as this is accepted in the  exercise science world .

So if the can run 13 seconds over 100 m they would be able to run 1h 31 + min for a Marathon.
 True this is ridicules but ???

Q : is it possible , that  this 4 have very different end time in a marathon
a ) 3.30  so 5 min/km
b) 3.08   20 4.30
c) 2.48  4 min
d) 2.06  3 min ( okay this guy most likely runs faster than 13 seconds on 100 m but not that much faster.
Situation : all have the same performance +- over 13 seconds but they may end up with very different marathon end time.  Why ?

 In respiration we can assess in a VO2 test the . The maximal VE at the end of the test and than the VE  at what ever threshold you use or calculate.
 This will give you a % of the " maximal " VE  you tested.
Q : is this really the maximal VE.

Now back  to the runner. When we look the %  of their theoretical marathon time  and we see what they do  than we have
a) 44 %
b) 49 %
c) 54 %
d) 73 %
 use of their 13 second speed time. What causes and why do we see this big difference ?
Q : do you think we can train a muscle or a muscle chain or system to be more endurance trained  than  another system ? The " education" tells us , that we can reach up to 50 +- % during heavy physical load of the maximal VE.
 Statistic for sure, as the  above example tells with  % of speed use, we as well see this incredible difference in % use  of VE  in different athletes from 30 - 35 % to 70 - 80% in  durations of 1 hour and longer.
 High HR ( due to smaller SV) and high RF due to lower TV can create a change in contact time at the exchange area of O2  to blood ( Lungs) This was or is considered impossible from some people. Than there are some who at least ask the question that this may have to be reviewed.
 Than there are some  studies how think this is the case.
 (Streltsov 1991)
Why do we look at this information on the MOXY forum.
 The  respiratory system and its ability to  move O2 and CO2  in combination with te heart and as such as well the ability to change O2 affinity ( O2 Diss curve) would suggest, that if  and only IF we  train the respiratory system so , that in many intensities we actually can use it as an additional " gear" than we  finally can  design workouts, where we do not have to load  high physical load but can train  many different physiological reaction in a very low  mechanical load but a very intense metabolic stimulation.
 meaning : I can train metabolically  like an interval  but with very  low wattage or speed demand but same physiological and metabolic challenge as if I would  have to go all out. Same for respiration. I can train 200 + l VE per min for30 min and longer, when today we often only can do that  for perhaps one step length in a VO2 max test of 3 min duration.
 Now you se, why we need moxy. We can train one day the  metabolic system without frying the  muscular system from a load point of view. I can train the other day the respiratory system without increasing my heart rate above active recovery heart rate and so on. To control all of this  I need some bio markers and SmO2 is a great one, when I use it during a test and than can see and understand what the up and downs in SmO2 mean.
 Bigger problem.

When I see that my daughter is getting an "education" at a  big university and they tell her , that  using a Spiro Tiger is the same as  breathing nonstop in a plastic bag , than there are some major questions to be ask.
 ? You ask the question and you give yourself the answer.
 Be ready for more critical questions as we go along.












Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #2 
Like to add this fun study on this section here.
 Regular reader know by now, that we can easy show with MOXY 9 NIRS) how respiration  in the different forms we can manipulate it has a direct influence on SmO2 over the O2 Diss curve.. We show since many years, how  a balanced  pH ( H + ) situation , can change the lactate dynamic as well how  the respiratory system is a part of this  process.
 So specific  respiratory interventions can change the way we train and possibly the way we react during races as well. Nothing really new  as we all know the influence of hyperventilation before we tried the first time to  dive the length of a pool as kids.
 Here is a "study " who actually  proofs this  again and there are many studies do the same.
 The key that this idea can be used is a  great and optimal trained respiratory muscle system.
. The current  strong believe is that 150  l/MIN VE + -  is  pretty much an  upper level  with some "rare " situations where people may be able to go higher.
 In our years of respiratory training we have alone in our small community full class rooms, of young athletes moving easy above 200 L VE  with Brian's Ice hockey school and some easy above 250 L.
 It is  just as so often, education  ( repeat what  your learned ) versus reality check and practical application.
 The below study misses one big part like many of the respiratory studies.  MOXY  as an indication during activity of how O2 is used or not  due to the shift of the O2 diss. curve to the left or the right.
 Here to enjoy . sent to me by D. Crumback  a Spiro Tiger competency center owner in Alberta Edmonton.
 "
Home > Published Ahead-of-Print > Hyperventilation as a strategy for improved repeated sprint...
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Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research:
doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e3182a1fe5c
Original Investigation: PDF Only

Hyperventilation as a strategy for improved repeated sprint performance

Sakamoto, Akihiro; Naito, Hisashi; Chow, Chin-Moi

Published Ahead-of-Print
 
 

Abstract

 

Repeated high intensity sprints incur substantial anaerobic metabolic challenges and create an acidic muscle milieu that is unfavorable for subsequent performance. Hyperventilation, resulting in respiratory alkalosis, acts as a compensatory mechanism for metabolic acidosis. This study tested the hypothesis that hyperventilation performed during recovery intervals would attenuate performance decrement in repeated sprint pedaling. Thirteen male university athletes performed ten sets of 10 s maximal pedaling on a cycle ergometer with a 60 s recovery between sets under control (spontaneous breathing) and hyperventilation conditions in a crossover, counter-balanced manner. Pedaling load (kp) was set at 0.075 x body mass. Peak and mean power outputs were documented for each set to compare performance decrements over 10 sets between conditions. Hyperventilation (60 breaths/min and PETCO2 maintained at 20-25 mmHg) was performed 30 s before each sprint set. This intervention successfully increased blood pH by 0.03-0.07 but lowered PCO2 by 1.2-8.4 mmHg throughout exercise (P < 0.001). The peak and mean power outputs, and blood [La-] accumulation were not significantly different between the conditions. However, a significant condition x time interaction existed for peak power (P = 0.035) and mean power (P = 0.023), demonstrating an attenuation in power decrement in later sprint sets with hyperventilation. In conclusion, hyperventilation implemented during recovery intervals of repeated sprint pedaling attenuated performance decrements in later exercise bouts that was associated with substantial metabolic acidosis. The practical implication is that hyperventilation may have a strategic role for enhancing training effectiveness and may give an edge in performance outcomes.

Copyright (C) 2013 by the National Strength & Conditioning Association.

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