Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
Thanks for the great feedback. 1 . One small critic here. Sometimes when explaining a particular SmO2/tHB behavior I see the option of possible lower wattage/higher wattage etc. Great point and absolutely right taking the wattage would eliminate this 2 options, as we have a feedback. Now in most cases where we use MOXY we do not have performance or we are not even interested in performance as we simply plan a physiological reaction / stimulation. So we have this 2 or even more options available and the part of reading MOXY can be to see this options and than try to combine additional feed backs , perhaps assume what performance may have done or not. This was the task for our grade 10 - 12 students. Using physiological feed backs to try to guess what performance may have done. It is a part of our "logical thinking activation" in school ,rather than education as the idea of repeating what the teachers tell. Different idea of learning perhaps. As more feedback we have as more answers we can get. One of the limitation is already with MOXY alone the price ( money ) so adding additional markers to it is great but it costs more. If we like to use MOXY as a bio marker, we may often start just with MOXY. The majority of MOXY users we serve have no other feedback. So your point is well taken and is a great point when looking just at cycling workouts ( like the one we discussed ) So I love to just look at tHb and SmO2 only, but here the wattage and HR information from our case study for additional feed backs like Daniele suggested. Here the Pic from the case first Wattage and HR than again the tHb and SmO2 and again the tHb and SmO2 same case 2. You have indicated a possible respiration limitation which causes an increase of CO2 in the body. How can you see this in the Smo2/tHB?Yes we can see that on SmO2 and tHb and that's why I like so much the data Jiri and Martin collect as every time we see the combination of tHb and SmO2 we see, how they interact and after a while you do not need anymore the mask and VO2 for many cases. . There are 2 respiratory limitation and tHb and SmO2 react differently. a) actual metaboreflex ( A Dempsey et all ). This means than the muscular systems " steels " O2 from the vital system and in this case from the respiratory system. So the CGM or the metaboreflex will suggest a protection of the more important vital respiratory muscles rather than allowing " steeling " O 2 in the loco motor muscles. The reaction is a vasoconstriction of the blood vessels Here a small pic from a reflex for respiratory and cardiac limitation . How would the respiratory metaboreflex show up in a MOXY/NIRS situation of data collection ? b ) actual respiratory muscle weakness or limitation. This is , where the muscle do not steel O2 as the delivery is still far better than the utilization. . So as we utilize a lot of O2 but still can deliver enough but we push harder so we start to accumulate more and more CO2 as a part of the buffer helper of H +, we start to move towards a hyerpcapnic respiration. So CO2 is increasing which shifts the O2 Diss curve to the right. ( and as Daniele points out, it is additional due to H + often ,as well increase in temperature and the change in pH. Now what we have than is a very high CO2 level which will influence as above shown the O2 disscurve so SmO2 Will show what ??? and tHb with high CO2 in the circulatory system creates what ? and therefor will show up as ???? Now to know this reactions the best way to go is possibly stopping suddenly as we do in a 5/1/5 so we get rid of the muscular O2 demand ,but we have the systemic reactions of CO2 still going. That is one of the main reasons ,why we stop down to zero load in a 5/1/5 to be able to give this answers. So your task is to answer Daniele's question How can you see this in the Smo2/tHB?Absolutely and depending on the goal setting we actually have even shorter rest periods. In fact as this was a test they took 60 seconds in this case, in other cases they take 90 seconds or what ever the sport will ask to assess as close as possible to the actual demand. 3. It looks like they set the recovery to 60 seconds which is extremely challenging for a series of all out intervals and would of course creates problems. . When we do workouts we have no watch at all and we can look after the workout what the rest periods where. During the all out workout we do not look at any other ideas than at SmO2 and tHb or one or the other.
Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
Here some additional feedback for Daniele's suggestion
On the Jiri and Martin workout, it would probably deserve a proper case study since there are also VO2 an VCO2 figures. You have indicated a possible respiration limitation which causes an increase of CO2 in the body. How can you see this in the Smo2/tHB? Below the reaction of an increase in load You can actually easy see the loads in the curve of the CO2 ( grey ) Dark green is an involved muscle and light green is a non involved or minimal involved muscle. Now we would expect, that in the dark green SmO2 we should see the steps as well as " normally" we would expect ,that when going harder we use more O2 and than we may see a rebound, as the delivery systems may pick up ??? Not here at all. Utilization limitation or problem?? Now what is super interesting is , that as soon this person reaches a certain CO2 level ( First in the body before we see it in the VO2 mask we see a drop in SmO2 and when you look carefully , as soon she can get rid of CO2 again ( drop in Grey ) we still have the systemic lag of deoxygenation due to shift of the O2 disscurve to the right followed by a super loading which often is caused by a after load hyperventilation reaction due to the stimulation of the respiration form the CO2 Now we see a shift of O2 disscurve to the right and great loading after the test. Now look below the trends in RF ( black ) and TV ( yellow ) You can see nice in the first 2 loads as RF goes up TV drops ( increase in dead space, so in the mask CO2 drops as it is accumulated in the body ) Than lats step or load After the load still high RF but not too bad drop initially of TV till the gases are more or less balanced. Here some additional feedback which may help to understand the team work in the respiration situation and why we have often a discrepancy on when we see SmO2 dropping when comparing with CO2 and O2 in a VO2 mas test. ( Lag time between what happened in the lungs till it hits the sensor at the mask and what happens in the muscle as it is going on. Similar like with lactate values. So below just for the reaosn of having a complet feedback without any comment.