Register Latest Topics

  Author   Comment  
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Here a great example of a test from Switzerland. No clue  what  they did ( Bike or run  and I hope they did a suggested protocol. At least when you look it    on the first glance looks the way we would  see it if properly slow started to give a chance for Alarm phase  and adaption  and than disruption,. See the trend here.
 Now that's' where the filtering comes in.
 Optimal would be  all 15 - 30 seconds an average filter  and we would have an easy picture  same as I show on here   with a filter rate averaging 15 seconds on all the pics I show
 That's now up to the  IT tech guys to come up with this options in an excel printout.

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: Swiss_1.jpg, Views: 54, Size: 25.21 KB 

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Okay , I am not sure, whether the study group tries to test  Andri and myself , But hey it is an open forum  where we show  what happens if you try to make a study.
The pic below is a 1 min  step data review but not averaged over 1 min just   every 1 min we took  the actual value at that minute. Basically as we would look on a HR monitor and write down every minute what we see on the watch.

Now here what I wrote to Switzerland. I can be  really off or I can be bang on , no matter what let's see what the response is.
SmO2 and if we have tHb an increase in tHb.

Interesting are this peaks  who normally show up as short stops where we would see an increase in tHb and an increase in O2Hb and drop in HHb and therefore  increase in SmO2.

In a bike test you never would stop to take lactate but you could.

So was it a bike test or  running test or an interval workout.

What we see is a plateau and than the drop like we would hope to see. The test for a  simple 3 min step test even with a world class athlete would be far too long 60 min to reach 460 watt but this one seem to be even longer ????

Was it a  UrPAHD 5/1/5 but than we have somewhere the you can see a complete stop of the test.

 See SmO2 increase and  up for a while ( stop ) than back to activity  but now nonstop with no interruption and  drop of SmO2.

 Question . What workout was this  for sure  not an expected 3 min step test ?

Thanks for the feedback

Now as you can see from over a month where different groups worldwide have the MOXY  and a very clear protocol , we  only have  a small sample size of  tests , where people really followed the protocol.

True it is fun to play around, but there  is a reason behind an organized protocol as we try to collect information on the ability to use MOXY as a physiological  bio marker for  assessing and than training with individually set up information.
 To do this we have to compare  the classical idea and than the  IPAHD idea and see, whether we really  have more  as Andri names it " extractable " physiological information's , than just a maximal value.

Now lets' see, what this interesting traces  form this  workout really  has in it. ?


Posts: 236
I just took a peak a the data file where this graph comes from.  There are 2 issues to be aware of.

My Dropbox\DATA\Andrea Bronz - 11.04\MOGHmoxy110413.csv

There are data from 2 separate dates in this file.  The Moxy sensor does not delete it's data when you download it.  It also needs to be cleared.  There's a second button for clearing in the Moxy app.

Also, the 2 spurious data points are due to a data transfer error.  For some reason, a comma got lost in the data download so when the file was opened in Excel, it did not parse properly.  The prototype Moxy's that we're using for this study do not have any error checking for this type of thing.

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: Data_Issue.jpg, Views: 133, Size: 52.78 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: Data_Transfer_Issue.jpg, Views: 134, Size: 86.24 KB 

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Roger, thanks for the great feedback. So after looking my first reply to the MOXY graph from Switzerland:
Summary : First part some kind of steps with some kind of rests than  somehow a stop. Now we know it was indeed a stop followed by a steady increase in load and a last stop.
 So I pulled the 2  data collections apart and here my take including possible mistakes.
 The red lines are start and stop moment I assume  based on the MOXY SmO2  trend.
 So here the first  part : See picture. It is a IPAHD ???? 4/1/4 with 4 double steps and the last single step was just a try from the athlete and than he gave up. If you look the last 2 steps you can see why he gave up ???????
 Than the second data collection was most likely a step test I  played again based on the info where  you may have a start. ????
 Feed backs are always welcome !!!!

Now like so often we have here a coincident but a great one.
 Take the second part a  normal step test. What can you really do here even with MOXY numbers ????
It is pretty much like lactate just the other direction. instead of increasing as we go harder we decrease SmO2 .
 BUT  what is the  "magic " number for a workout ? Similar question we had 25 years ago with lactate ???
Now look at the IPAHD, where do we increase O2  , where do we tend to be in a balance and where do we decrease O2 ?

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: Swiss_first_part.jpg, Views: 31, Size: 43.24 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: swiss_second_part.jpg, Views: 32, Size: 35.27 KB 

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Okay here the feedback from Switzerland . Thanks . As we "speculated  " above  there where 2 test  .
I did the tests with two different athletes, on the same day.

"by the first I didn't reset time and date, the second I did it.

first test is GRIE-Her110413MOXY.csv (57 kb), 5-1-5-1

second one is MOGHmoxy110413.csv (111 kb) 3 min step start 60 watt, add 20 each step

Now that I look at the size the firs test was +/- 50 minutes, the second 1/- 24 minutes... "

So what is left in this discussion is as mentioned before :
 the 3 min step test with the MOXY data simply adds some more graphs to a classical test.
 What can we see out of that graph different than  from a HR . VO2 or lactate  graph ??

 I will show this evening a full MyPAHD . followed by decision on how to make  n individual protocol for a UrPAHD and you have the full picture of  IPAHD as we will include as well info on lactate and Respiration and you can see all of that . Goal TIP  Training Intensity Profile Based on MOXY

Final Goal : you can create a physiological intensity profile with at home with a MOXY watch. You take your bike  or  a flat road for running and you can do more on physiological info , than you have after a lactate threshold test or  a VO2 max test as you are   at the game ( IRS) and  you do not read the paper the next day.

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Here just for fun and a nice visual to get  some thoughts  though your  brain.
 This is a UrPAHD done   on and from Andri from Switzerland.
 What do you see, what do you think, where is the critical intensity , where homeostasis is is disrupted. ?

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: andri_mip_test_try.jpg, Views: 35, Size: 70.74 KB 

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Posts: 1,530
Here a very nice data collection with clear practical information   from our Swiss group done on a world class  athlete.
 No explanation , as  most regular reader by  now are able to make their own interpretation.
 Just some  explanation.
  assessment is an IPAHD done with 4/1/4  . Yellow is tHb and purple is Hb Diff.
 When using MOXY the SmO2 in this case will be identical with the Hb Diff.
 Why ?
The second picture is  a Fit Mate data collection , where we look at respiratory information and as well on lactate trend.
 The first lactate reading is a resting lactate reading 1.2 and the rest are always taken in the one min break of each step.
 look at Hb Diff and than look at the lactate  information.
 As well look at his  compensator which is incredible strong an that's why we see certain lactate reactions.
 Reason.  It is NOT the lactate , who gives you  the indication of fatigue or recovery, It is the question of homeostasis disruption of the H + balance.

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: closer_look_yama_nirs_and_lac.jpg, Views: 33, Size: 123.22 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: closer_look_yama_lac.jpg, Views: 33, Size: 71.55 KB 

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.

HTML hit counter -