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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #16 
Thank you so much to all the great feedbacks.
E.F has some incredible great points to make.
 Remember where we are coming from. Exercise physiology and we have the opportunity to see, how an equipment like MOXY designed exactly  for what E.F  explains , can be integrated in the fitness market.
 There are some big differences between the  way European coaches , centers and people react to  what we do and northwmerican reactions.
 Both are super interesting  and both  have very different  reactions from us to accept and work on what  is needed and what is asked for.
 The European direction is changing super fast and classical ideas are locked at more and more critically to say the least and sometime straight forward ideas and  test simply get thrown out. I do not think this is that smart , as we always learn from old , when integrating some new ideas.
 See att on  threshold.
 One part we are very thankful for the great feedback  by EF is his straight forward suggestions  and over the next few days , why being in the altitude in Davos  Andri and myself will follow his great  ideas and will try to come up with a simple basic " cook book " without loosing the idea of  being as accurate and individual as possible , but trying to achieve  the Goal E.F  is  explaining so nicely.
 I will allow myself to  show you some of the drafts on here in the hope people brutally take it apart so we all can improve as we go along. Thanks again  for all the great  and critical but very constructive comments. This is , what we are hoping for. We make any ( sometimes too many ) mistakes and it is great to have regular readers keeping us on  both feet's to say the least.
 Thanks Juerg

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #17 
Back from " seclusion" with a bag full of super interesting data's.
I hope Andri and myself are able to finish the drafts for the  short  starter booklet this week.
In short:
 there will most likely by 6 very short handouts.
 1. Endurance for beginner. Use  just HR and SmO2  from the same watch and  nature to find your individual oxygenation. So all is completely physiological controlled .
 This person  will go in a store will see MOXY and buys it, has a very simple info n how to use and how to find the three  Intensities.
3 Zones :  MOXYGENATION  INTENSITY
.               MOXY BALANCE
                DEMOXYGENATION
For advanced and accuracy freaks the  handout will show them how they.
 Here the performance is physically controlled. You either use a watt or speed  as an objective info  and you  will get HR and MOXY as the physiological intensity control for workouts.
 Advantage here is the easy control of changes in actual performance with the intensities you  plan to use.
The ultimate info on LIMITER and COMPENSATOR will be done in MOXY Competency centers  and or in any great test facility by combining different physiological parameters.
There will be some fun info coming towards you here.
We will ask some of our  Study partners to do some more testing for us.
Same concept for interval workout Physiologically guided and performance  based.
 Same for strength in the same way. So stay tuned as we start moving to  ideas for beginners.
 Thanks EF.


Andri

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 65
 #18 
Update:
We will contact some of our very active study group partners now in this phase.
 Phase one was the 3 min step test and data collection with MOXY  and lot's integration into the  classical 3 min step test ideas.
 Discussion  and options to improve values of data collections.
 Thanks to all the  many contributors for that phase and the great feedbacks.
Phase 2 was the integration of the information  from the classical 3 min tests in the IPAHD idea. The new physiological protocol and as  most contributors found out very easy and fast , the information on Limiter and Compensator.
The beauty is exactly that.
 By giving the systems enough time to react and react again, we have a  very nice  way to see what reacts functionally and what reacts structurally afterwards.
Pahse 3 now will be to  start some in-house case studies.
We will contact our most active contributor  to give some task which fit in their filed of expertice .
Example:
 Baseline assessment for the person on the street who only has a MOXY HR watch.
BASELINE STRENGHT WORKOUT  WITH The 3  OPTIONS IN PHYSILOGICAL LOADING
1. Desaturation of SmO2 to lowest  individual point.
2. Desaturation  to lowest individual point plus plateau over a certain amount of time.
3. Desaturation  to lowest individual point and  hold till we have a ( Steeling ) of blood effect ( Holmberg) in a non active muscle group

The PP is a very short summary of one of the IPAHD presentation for already existing competency centers.
We work on the future seminar schedule and handouts ( e books )
Feedbacks are welcome




Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #19 

 

 
Okay, here the first few case studies in our attempt to bring SmO2 MOXY down to the base line of any user out there. (Thanks to E.F. suggestion .)

Current situation:
 People buy a HR Monitor with some incredible features and options.
Stride frequency, Speed and more.
 Plus, what was the start  of all HR.
 The physiological intensity of the workout is based on the HR.
 We use the most common idea of 220 - age or any kind of calculated or tested Max. HR.
 Form this we either calculate % or subtract age to find a calculated statistical intensity to work .
 Even the “founder " of 220 - age is surprised that this is used.
Nevertheless we do it and even in medical Bruce protocols we use 220 - age.

So here the alternative as a Question:

 How about using some individual physiological information for any base line training by getting the information from your own physiological systems.

Your system has three basic options.

1.    You walk in an intensity, where the oxygen use is less than the supply. Result SmO2 will increase. As you start walking and increase HR you increase blood flow through the delivery system Heart and Lungs and increase the oxygen delivery to the working muscles. If this delivery is higher than the use you will have an increase in SmO2

2.    If your workout intensity reaches a level, where the energy demand ( O2) is equal the supply your SmO2  trend will show a plateau.

3.    Once you reach and intensity, where your O2 demand is higher than your possible O2 supply you will see drop in SmO2.

4.     Now in these cases you will have to options. You may see an initial drop with a following plateau, as you just moved into a new plateau with a somewhat lower SmO2 value.

5.      Once you see a steady drop and you feel a steady worse body you really know you are  dropping out of SmO2 homeostasis.

Now does this theory practical exist?  If yes it would be really great , when we can assess our own  basic optimal intensities.

Here the three Intensities. 3 Zones:

MOXYGENATION INTENSITY
MOXY BALANCE
   DEMOXYGENATION

 Now let’s see if you are the first MOXYGENATION  coach.

Here a few cases we did in DAVOS Switzerland with simply walking   from DAVOS to Schatzalp . See print outs with raw files and with 15 sec averages.

Attached Images
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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #20 
Here the  case study prints of SmO2  and HR info

Attached Images
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EternalFury

Development Team Member
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Posts: 25
 #21 
"220 - your age" is totally bogus ; I think it's not hard to agree on that.

In all I have posted previously, I NEVER meant that what Moxy is doing should be "dumbed down" to the level of a silly "220 - your age" formula.
Individuals are individuals and each of us are born with our own personal formula, which may or may not be close to the next person's.

In my case, I estimate my HRmax to be 175. Over hundreds of runs at various intensities, including maximal efforts in high heat, I have never recorded a value above 175. That's what I use as my HRmax.
I admit that if a grizzly bear were to chase me down a trail, my heart could probably beat a little faster, but I don't usually run with bears, so I don't see how that could be useful when I train.

In any case, I am pretty sure it's better to underestimate HRmax than it is to overestimate it.

The following is great progress in making a practical interpretation of the SmO2 index value:

Quote:
1.    You walk in an intensity, where the oxygen use is less than the supply. Result SmO2 will increase. As you start walking and increase HR you increase blood flow through the delivery system Heart and Lungs and increase the oxygen delivery to the working muscles. If this delivery is higher than the use you will have an increase in SmO2

2.    If your workout intensity reaches a level, where the energy demand ( O2) is equal the supply your SmO2  trend will show a plateau.

3.    Once you reach and intensity, where your O2 demand is higher than your possible O2 supply you will see drop in SmO2.

4.     Now in these cases you will have to options. You may see an initial drop with a following plateau, as you just moved into a new plateau with a somewhat lower SmO2 value.

5.      Once you see a steady drop and you feel a steady worse body you really know you are  dropping out of SmO2 homeostasis.


I think this break-down gives a good idea of what the SmO2 index value means.

Now, the next step is to integrate this with common training protocols.

At this point, I recommend you buy this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Run-Workouts-Runners-Triathletes-Binder/dp/1934030333/

It is essentially a "cookbook" of workouts runners and triathletes can use in order to achieve specific objectives.
If I were you, I would take a few of the listed workouts and plug in SmO2 to tune each workout to the ability of the athlete undertaking it.

EternalFury

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 25
 #22 
The charts do not have any legend or units, so I do not know what I am looking at. It would be good to also annotate the various segments they include in order to highlight the cause/effect of the observed variations.

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #23 
E.T . Thanks and great feedback as usual.
 Yes this is a great book. T. Noakes is one of our  basic  pillars in the idea of LIMITER and Compensator as well  a steady driving motivation  that "classical " ideas can be enhanced with new and interesting additions.
 Plaatjes was a great runner at the end of 1980 and beginning of 1990 .  1993  marathon world champion in Stuttgart Germany.
 I remember and still have pictures from him  during running clinic we had in St. Moritz Switzerland.
The time of some great  world class Swiss runners. ( Ryffel .  Lanfranchi,  and more.
 I was a coauthor at that time of a running book  with the translated title ( Author Juerg Wirz ) The way on how to  be world class.
 For any body having time, yes great reading  and great ideas.
 Many of the workouts in the book and other ideas are being tested by us with SmO2  and  other ideas to see, why some worked well on some athletes and some not at all.
 Main reason   LIMITER and  Compensator.

 Example. Respiratory limitation . One athlete TV limitation the other RF limitation  and we have a very different reaction o the O2 Diss curve and with it  SmO2 and  therefor very different metabolic options for ATP production.

 Second point  by ET. Metrics to the pictures.
 I tried to avoid too complex info to keep it simple  so here te metrics from one of the case studies.
in the next reply
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #24 
Second point  by ET. Metrics to the pictures.
 I tried to avoid too complex info to keep it simple  so here te metrics from one of the case studies.
See below word  document

EternalFury

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 25
 #25 
Juerg,

Thank you. That Word document makes things a lot easier. Great job!
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #26 
" I think this break-down gives a good idea of what the SmO2 index value means.

Now, the next step is to integrate this with common training protocols"
" It is essentially a "cookbook" of workouts runners and triathletes can use in order to achieve specific objectives.
If I were you, I would take a few of the listed workouts and plug in SmO2 to tune each workout to the ability of the athlete undertaking it."

This are great  infos and shows , that we  get more and more people thinking the way we do since many years.
 We do since many years exactly that. We use NIRS and now MOXY to control workouts physiologically first and physically second . For people  really like to use actual performance , they can use SmO2 as well. Andri and I  are just in the finish sprint  to have 6 different short summary's for the following workouts,  guided with SmO2 ,ready  for people simply looking at physiological guided  or physiological feedback workouts.
The big change we will see soon is , that in the past we either had to do all workouts inside to have clients seeing live the Hb Diff trends, or they would do a workout outside in a standalone mode but no direct feedback of Hb Diff and other NIRS info. Just after the workout we where able to download the info, which is fun but late, if you like to guide the intensity over oxygenation info.

NOW  with MOXY  this changes completely the  ability for anybody out there to be a part of this individualized intensity structure. It is simple  and  lot's of fun to do.
 Here in short .
 MOXY use fore endurance workouts.
a) HR and SmO2 only based on trends
b) HR MOXY and speed ( wattage ) for people  like to  see performance  in comparison to physiological trends.

Interval or Fartleg
a)guided over MOXY and HR
b) guided over  performance ( Speed / Time / Wattage ) and SmO2 and HR

Strength:
a) Guided over SmO2
b) guided over load and SmO2 and duration

Summary :
 We would like to replace ideas like  10 x 4 min or 54 x 10 reps or 5 x 60 sec. or 10 x 400 m  and and and. with physiological guided duration and recovery times.
 Simple question.
 What is so physiologically sensitive in 5 or 10 reps or 400 m run or 1 min rest  or  any of this absolute ideas. We believe  everybody has a very individually duration for  specific load and recovery. With MOXY we will be able to finally change form "Cook book " number   and mathematic to perhaps  " cook book " information  from physiological  feedbacks.
We started a pilot  testing, where we give people the " cookbook " info  we develop and see, whether they are able to make sense out of it. Basically you go in a store by  a MOXY open it take the information out and you are ready to start physiological guided workouts. So stay tuned as Europe is ready to roll in this direction with all the great feedback we are getting after our seminars.
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