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Takura

Development Team Member
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Posts: 30
 #1 
Hi, this is a question about technical possibility and, if possible, firmware request.

I am sorry if I asked in the past ... but faced the issue again. The key is probably whether the hardware supports simultaneous multiple ANT+ channel sending and a small battery life reduction.

(1) Would it be possible to send out on ANT+ the SmO2 and tHb simultaneously using both SmO2 and Speed Cadence profile with different (or even same?) ANT IDs?

My use cases are

- if I just happen to sporadically use devices that don't support SmO2 profile but everytime else the SmO2 profile would be more convenient and I don't want to have to reconfigure my Moxy's so frequently. (The BSX insight is very comfortable in that aspect.)

- when recording using WASP (capturing using SmO2 profile would be more comfortable and avoid errors in post processing) while displaying 3rd Moxy on PeriPedal 2-user license as Speed Cadence sensor (avoids having to upgrade to 4-user license - which actually makes it less readable by dividing display into 4 instead of 2 users)

(2) Would it be possible to send out smoothed and not smoothed data simultaneously on separate ANT+ channels with different ANT IDs?

My use case is to display smoothed data live but having the non-smoothed data simultaneously recorded on WASP synchronized with other data.

Another related question could be: What does the smoothing inside the units do?

Regards, Takura
Roger

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Posts: 242
 #2 
Hi Takura,

Thanks for the suggestions.  I would appreciate anyone else that has similar issues chiming in.

I'm pretty sure it's possible for the current Moxy hardware to broadcast the data on both the MO2 and Speed and Cadence profiles at the same time.  The impact on battery life would be very small to negligible. The bigger problem would be using up the extra ANT+ bandwidth.  ANT+ can start to have issues when you get more that 20 to 30 channels operating at the same time.  It can theoretically handle a lot more, but there are practical issues that come in to play.  If you've got 5 bikes with a moxy, power meter, heart rate strap, cadence sensor, all on a trainer (the trainer often takes 2 channels) that gets you to 30.  So double broadcasting the Moxy data would not be helpful in that scenario.

Now certainly, we can make it an option to turn dual broadcasting off, but there's no way to make sure everyone abides by this in a group setting.

There are several issues that lead me to avoid dual broadcasting as a solution.
  • The ANT+ bandwidth issue I described above.  We want to play nice in a sometimes crowded space even if not everyone else does.
  • The Speed and Cadence solution is a bit of a hack that the ANT+ people allowed us do with the promise that we'd phase it out as quick as we can. This hack leads to more hacks.  Golden Cheetah has a feature to relabel S&C data as Moxy data, but other software packages don't.  I'd rather have the 3rd party analysis packages focus on more standard feature support as opposed to propagating hacks.
  • While PeriPedal is not likely to add support for multiple sensors per athlete (I've asked), PerfPro and other software packages coming out soon will start to add this support.  The ANT+ support for multiple Moxy data in FIT files has been less than enthusiastic, but I did get a standardized solution in place that many of the 3rd party software packages have agreed to support.  I'd rather have them work on this than develop a standard way for them to identify Moxy data in the S&C fields.
Sorry, I'm a bit windy on this issue.  I just wanted to let you know that it's something we do think about.

The second issue of smoothed vs not smoothed data is another challenging issue for us to get just right.  You can currently broadcast unsmoothed data over ANT+ by changing the settings on the sensor via the Moxy PC app.  I have attached a document that describes the details of what the settings do.

PeriPedal does not have an option to smooth live data but it does have a smoothing setting for viewing historical data.  I think if you set it to 10, it would be the same smoothing Moxy would do.  I know Golden Cheetah has some smoothing options too and there are some issues with it that we are working through right now.  The issues relate to handle missed data.  Sometimes it seems to roll a 0 into the smoothing filter if a data point was missed.  So be careful with data smoothed after it was collected.

Just FYI - We will be adding an option to broadcast smoothed data every 1 second because so many other devices update every second.  This has been a very common request.  I will update the Moxy Update Rate Document when this new option comes out.

 
Attached Files
pdf Moxy_Update_Rate.pdf (220.08 KB, 7 views)

Takura

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 30
 #3 
Hi Roger,

thanks for the detailed reply. Will be looking forward to the 1s option.

Understand your point of view. Still, personally I'd appreciate being able to choose ... unless it's just me who'd benefit from this.  :-)
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