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juergfeldmann

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 #1 
Below a great respond  from Craig I like to come back to

A bit off the point here, but I am still trying to understand physiologically guided workouts. You showed 2 workout. The first was to stimulate an increase in plasma volume and the second was to stimulate SV. I understand the second I think, ie try to achieve the highest tHB with the lowest HR. However, I do not understand how plasma volume can be stimulated in your first workout. Can you please explain?


We  or I can not as mentioned give you any  ideas on physiologcila guied  wtrainng  as this is not the  topic of this  site  or forum. The goal here is to stimulate  the ideas on how to  make interpretation by using any NIRS device. So below   the 2 examples again.
 The goal  there is to show you how the  individual calibration  helps us t decide  what we like to  do  or  better what makes  sense  to do which may be not what we planned  to  do..
cardaic  thb up.jpg  The above example shows  us  that we  actually  can benefit  if we did not planned it  to follow after the calibration an idea  to work on Stroke volume. If it was planned great  if it is a  todays feedback  we  are flexible enough to take the  chance we have no for a  effective  Cardaic  stimulation.

 Now below a different picture  and not a very smart  situation to follow  up  with a cardiac  stimulation. So we choose  another idea  and than used the outcome of that  idea  to hope and see the next day , whether it prepared us  for our target idea a short term functional performance improvement

cardaic  hit  after  volume.jpg 
The above ideas are  what we cl all physiological peaking. This is an example how we  try to peak at the  right time  so we have some ideas on how we can prepare  that at a specific  time or  day we have optimal physiological situation for that specific  sport  or discipline.
 It is all about natural  physiological triggered plasma expansion  or  O2 affinity  shift or EPO production and so on. It is the difference  between pharmacological enhanced  stimulation versus   physiological  enhanced  individual stimulation  for individual optima performance.
 Why  do we have limited  coaches  using this.?
 Because physical testing like  based on performance  and %  and zoning based on some  theoretically found maximal  idea  do not give any physiological feedbacks  to help in coaching.
 The question on the above I got was how many times  I do this.
 Answer
 It all depends
 If  we use it as a  race  goal setting peaking  we do it  just as a functional stimulus  for optimal timing. If we  lie to actual do it for structural changes  than it is different.
 Here a 35 year old  diagram  to explain thus I  showed in a presentation in a  sport congress far back.

  F  and S.jpg

Now below  three   options  but there are more  on how we  do physiological stimulation  to  try to enhance  O2  utilization
Below  the overall view of the workout. It was alive workout  we  did in a demonstration yesterday  here in Santa Ana California
VL  thb  smo2  all.jpg 

The above is  an overall picture of a leg  muscle in cycling. With in this workout  we have three different options on how to stimulate  O2 utilization. 
 Goals
 a(  Stimulate O2  utilization without  stress in or using  cardiac  influence  so low CO  but highO2  utilization and stimulate it    nevertheless  besides a low CO  still systemically
b) Stimulate  O2  utilization  but integrate CO  but  avoid a systemic O2 utilisation
c) Stimulated O2  utilization but  integrating O2  shift  from low priority  muscles  ( upper  body )  to leg muscles heavily involved in the activity

Below systemic  O2 utilization with   no cardiac  involvement or better  minimal  cardiac involvement
Light green is  confirmation trace  of   secondary involved upper  body muscle to see whether the O2  utilization is triggered systemically



 smo2  vl  d  systemic utilization L 1.jpg


 Below  same athlete same placement same activity  (( Biking (
 [wink]
Goal O2  utilization  stimulation in legs  and  shift of  O2  from Arm  to legs
smo2  VL  D  hard  and O 2  shift.jpg 
And below  same as before but goal  to just stimulate  leg O  utilization

smo2  vl  d  local leg  deutilization only.jpg  We  can have  2 option.
 We  simple  use a  performance  and see what happens  and than  we know what this load  today creates .
  Or as we do it we  plan what we like to see today and adjust the performance needed  to achieve the physiological stimulation accordingly.
 I believe it is better to know  what you do  than to hope what may  happens but different ideas   for different people. Classical zoning  is  based on hope  and theories 
 Physiological live feedback tells you  now what you  do  and what happens


juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #2 
I hope  you made some  discussions  with yourself  on the three graphs  above.
 All as you can see  show a very close  to the same SmO2  utilization despite the fact  that the load difference  was  from the  easy load  of  about 80  +- watts  to over 400  Watts  on the hardest of the tree  and about 240 +- on t he  medium load.
 The  O2  utilization is the same but once  we have it systemically  and once we have it very local  and once we  actually  have it  in skeletal muscles  as we  shift the O2   from arms  to legs. With some thinking you will be able to  fit  each graph to the different tasks  we  set. I will show  you  later  some markers in the three loads  and you  see what the tends  mean. To  get ahead o a  sure  to come question.
 How  did  we know  or how do we know  that the  O2  sift  and a  such the tHb  drop  and SmO2  drop in arms  where we  tell it is a shift is not an activity  from the  arms  asking  for O2  and   contracting  muscle  so tHb  drops. Well when we  saw this  reaction he first time  that was our  question. So  what tool  can you use . Use a SEMG  and see  whether we  actually see an activity   increase or not. Once  we had   LOT OF THIS REACTIONS  AND A LOT  FOR US  IS  100 +  THAN WE  STARTED TO SEARCH  FO SIGNS  WHETHER WE  REALLY ALWAYS NEED  AN semg OR WHETHER THERE IS A SPECIFIC  MARKER  WE SEE IN nirs  WHETHER IT WAS ACTIVITY RELATED  OR  ENERGY SHIFT  RELATED. aND YES  THERE IS A MARKER. can YOU  FIND  IT ?
juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #3 
I like to come back on the  physiological guided  workouts. Why :  I had a  some great  feedbacks  and  questions  and thoughts. A 500 % increase in responses. This is what we do  when we  talk business success.
 I had  from Zero responses  in some topics, like the 1 mmol LT2  idea  or the   LT1  idea on crossing the LT  curve   the first time above  resting lactate, to  5  responses  so  form zero  to 5  is  a  500 % increase.
So here the  topic  in short pictures.
 In a physiological guided  workout  I like  to decide  what I like to stress,
versus
in a  physical  performance guided  workout I hope I stress what the  calculations in %  suggests.

 Case 1.
 I like to  create a  strong  utilization stimulation  but no  or better minimal involvement of the cardiac system

respiratory  O2  reaction systemic.jpg


Now one of the emails told me , that it looks fun but it  does not work in real life  and real workouts.

Maybe  and I assume  he  tried a lot of options  to  convince  himself. Below is a  full workout  form a client  where he had  to  do three times in a row  the idea in a  live feedback  workout.
 As usual initial calibration of the  systems  to see, whether we can do what we planned. followed by 3  repeats  of  a)  systemic   O2  utilization no  or minimal cardiac involvement followed by local   O2  utilization in target body  section followed by a  O2  shift  from  upper to lower body.
 Can you see the three  version in the live feedback  below ?

3 versions legs.jpg 
Now  if you found  them below the overlap  of  leg   priority muscle  and  an upper body low priority muscle. Look as well above the HR  reactions as a part of  intensity feedback paired  with the tHb reactions  as an other part  of  the intensity feedback

smo2 overlap  l and a.jpg


Above  first  SmO2  drop a systemic  O2 utilization  with minimal  cardiac   stress
- second  SmO2  drop a possible local O2  utilization  without  systemic  heavy involvement
- third  SmO2  drop a  heavy O2  utilization in the lower body  with a shift of  O2   from arms to legs.

 Now below  just a short feedback on SmO2    and HR  combined in one graph.

HR  and smo2  3 laods close.jpg

Now feedback to the athlete  was, that :
 1. Systemic  stimulation  you  are great  and have it  now  under control.
 2. Your  local O2 utilization was somewhat  to high intensity see below the optimal trend  and compare to your one above. Can you see what I mean.
3. Your  O2  shift  form arms  to legs  works  , and it may bring you some feedback  what happened in the last race  and how we  can  correct this easy  for the next  real important  race. 
So below a local O2  utilization  you should see during your live  workout.


localleg only  O2  utilization.jpg


And below  to finish  it  of  and congratulation to your great  workout.

A  O2  shift  from arms to legs.
hard load  wiht O2  shift.jpg 

Now  to finish of this section and  a lot  of thanks to the athlete  who allowed me  to use his data's  to show it on here.  One of the  emails  form the  500 %  increase in interests  was making an interesting statement.

" your ideas  and graphs  are  super interesting  and I enjoy it  and have  fun, but I can not see the practical value as a coach to  dig into this interesting field of  physiological  ideas."

First thanks  for the   friendly mail. Here my point.
 In the above case, we do not have a lot of time left  till the big race.
 So  we can do some functional changes  with the  whole physiological abilities  and properties  this athlete  worked on over many years.
 In his  sport  there are 3 section of the race ( possibly in  other sports  as well . But here  a  first  section   very hard  out , out of  physical reasons   but the timing  and duration of this  all out  at the start  has its limit  other wise the race is over before it  really  started.

If we create    already a O2  sift  form arms to legs  it is  all over.
 The second  section is all about   optimal efficiency  with an optimal O2  delivery and utilization. The key here is  to   not use the  lactate created in the first  section but  maintain it  or  even increase it  without  changing the H +  and P  balance in the  m  working muscles.

The last section is  to  empty  the O2   to the  lowest  accepted level of the body  and again  avoid  the  O2  shift  form arms to legs. We  can see that  learn that apply  that. Than we need to avoid  pre race a  change in O2  utilization  due to   so called peaking  which is  often a  reduced   amount of  hours  and as well a reduce  amount of intensity. I like to have  an optimal  cardiac  respiratory  and muscular  situation and one is  to allow  the O2   Dissociation curve  to shift  at the end of the race  as far over as possible  so a  low  O2  affinity .
 The main  source  we can train the rest will simply happened is the 2.3 DPG  concentration.
  So  desaturation or O2  utilization without a  load on respiration and cardiac  is one way  to   have this ready  for the race.
 You can do it see it  and  have live feedback  as you see above.

Thanks again  and I will start a next section form another group  who works  very nicely  with  physiological stimulations.




juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #4 
Here a fascinating 5/1/5  form a  on the top  of physiological  coaching and training  group Balance point racing.

I  like to start  with an overview  how I look  at  interesting looking graphs. Now  I have a  great advantage here.
 I know that when I get data's  from them  they  have a  nice challenge set up  for me  and I  can often go  wrong but nevertheless it is a great options to  check facts  versus theories.
 I  know that all of their athletes  are very veyr  individually controlled  and  all  or most of them  have a very intense respiratory training  options  with Spiro Tiger.
 They are as well  very aware  of   physiological options  to  stimulate  certain target  systems. 
Now   with this in mind I  always look  for some specific  reactions.
 So I start  with SmO2  alone  as a  graph.
 Disclaimer. I will not  explain  on what I believe they  do  I will simply  explain what we see in NIRS  and the group  knows  whether   what I explain si due to what they actually  physiologically manipulated. So this  way  the see,whether  they  can  predict and achieve  what will be stress or not.

smo2  all.jpg

Above  the 5/1/5  SmO2 graph.
 Now  I made 2  circles  and again I know the athlete  and know that he is in a incredible good shape.

So the first dotted  circle  is  something we often see.
 The lag time of the delivery systems  respiration and  cardiac  would often show  a same load  but a different SmO2 trend. As  the delivery  gets going we have the second  time same load  an increase in O2  delivery but the  same  O2 utilization so yes  SmO2 ill increase.
 We  can accept this  idea as well in the second     higher load  so  20 min into the assessment we  can or should expect , that  the delivery  now is in full swing  and we    often see now  a SmO2  in the first and second same load pretty much even. But look at here  even in the 4 th  double load  so long into the  lag time we still see the same interesting much lower SmO2  trend in the first  load than the  second load.
  Now  it is possible  and   in certain  " fatigue situations we may see that, but look we loose the  situation  after load 4 when the  delivery really are getting stressed now.  Okay yes  tHb   can be pulled dup now  but I like to wait as it will confuse  most of us  more than it helps  for the moment.

 So  what I  do is  to get in my head a picture  of O2  use  and  delivery  and  the picture  of tHb  I  look at biased   HHb  and O2Hb overall.

bias  circle.jpg 

see above  the trend the  circle   takes my interest  and the next  after the circle  double load  is possibly   balanced from the intensity point of  view  so we loos in this intensity   often the ability  to manipulate  the  way we like.
 This brings  me back to the calculated  zoning.
 For me  the bets  physiological zoning is the  what we call ARI  as I have no  actual limitation there  form any system  so I can target  anything.
 Once I hit performance wise the  STEI  to FEI  or FEI  to HII  than I start to  eliminate  system  I like to target as they have to   work any way, whether we like it or not..
 So the worst 2  zonings  are  FEI  and HII  as I have no choice but  fire  with all systems  so no compensation option really.  So lets go one step   forward here before I  have to go  and  get the goats in  and milk.
 See below the   questions I will have  during milking.

bias  with questions.jpg

What  do I have to  do  to create  any of the above plus some additional  reactions  when I try to manipulate  some  systems  and reactions ?


 Now remember, if you are not very efficient  with milking  and the goat  hates  you she will kick and you will have no chance  to think  as it is more a  survival   task. As  everything it is a question of  time  and practice  as it is  with physiological thoughts. So I can super  relax  increase and enjoy the   calm  of a barn with animals  around me and  that's where the   lab work is  done in my brain.

This is FETA  who   will get in .

feta.jpg


and than it is  time to think
milking.jpg 




juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #5 
to the three  utilization options.
 - systemic   minimal cardiac involvement 
- locally target
- O2  shift  form upper to lower body- One internal discussion I have  with the   athlete  who is doing this very skill full now.
 How  much  can we just use  SmO2  as  we  show  and  what happens  with tHb trends. Interesting point  and important. Again it all depends on the goal you have. 
 Do we like to improve  O2 utilization so we stress  O2  utilization. 
or  do we lie as well to target H +  dynamic  so we  will stimulate  lactate as a  H +  buffer  and as  such   later in the reaction  respiration as a CO2  release  and additional buffer  and so on.
 Every coach out there    understands  what I am talking about  as this is  the key  for individual  workouts.
 So  tHb will tell us   which  section or  idea  we really   will stimulate the most. Look  or visit  any of the  fats  growing  Certified MOXY  centers. They  all have VO2   and  lactate equipment and now MOXY  or any NIRS  equipment  and they  now  can show  you live  how   the  classical ideas  can  in some cases   help and where they  give you much more individual feedback  on physiological  workouts  as they now integrate NIRS  with it.  Using  VO2  and lactate  and combine it with NIRS  will open  some great questions but as well will in many cases  give  you some interesting answers.

 Questions like :
  Why is lactate dropping   at the moment  I have a  NIRS  break point. ?
 Or  the opposite  why is lactate increasing  despite a  sharp increase in SmO2 ?  or 
 Why  do I have 2 different VO2  values by the same load  but very different SmO2 trends  in a  5/1 5/ load.
 
Or  why  do I have the same SmO2  trend in a 5/1/5  but very different VO2  values ?

 Important is  when we  combine NIRS as a direct local feedback  with classical  tools like systemic  lactate feedback or VO2 feedback, that we open up the mind that  utilization and delivery  ave different open individual time  spans  to react  and when we  blindly  fix  our assessments on a 2  3  or  even 4 min step test yes we  may see some pattern  specific  for this time frame but  do they apply in the real world  out there or  do we blindly create a lab monster  with  some very manipulated feedback's. ?


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