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Michael Pilhofer

Development Team Member
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Posts: 2
 #1 
Hello everyone,

Michael here, first post! 

A little background first...I am very, very...VERY new to MOXY, having had them a week.  My background is working mostly with Weightlifters, and folks looking for general health and fitness.  

I have a Moderate Level, Masters (53 yr old) client who is a X Ctry Skier.  This will be his 4th Birkie coming up in early 2016.  He runs 1st wave, but back of the pack for the most part.

Without getting too deep into his romantic version of his prior self, I'd like to help him better dial in his ski training...most of which he programs for himself.  He just, after about a year working dry land together, started letting me into his inner sanctum...and I feel I can help not only train smarter, but have a better outcome that I've witnessed over the time we've been working together.  

This forum is VAST..., and I am often feeling a little over my head when I am reading the info.  I am not trying to cut to the front asking a question that's likely been covered a million times before...with that said, I am curious if there is a MOXY testing protocol that you use for this type of application to determine "Training Zones" per se.  

I know this is a bit of a hot topic, and in my experience, not a set in stone value...even day to day.  With that...he is working off of YEAR old LT data, which I feel is not helping him at all when he's doing his interval work.  

Thank you all of your time and input...looking forward to learning and hoping at some point to be able to actually contribute vs. just ask for help [smile]

Thanks,

MSP
juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
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Posts: 1,501
 #2 

Welcome  and  please  feel free to ask anything. Main reason. My mistake  as the forum is a  reflection for my messy  brain.
 So no matter whether it  I covered  somewhere I  always  will answer in a different form anyway so different  feed backs  with the some hopefully end  goal , will  over time help  to increase the  community thinking more in  physiological terms , than in   performance only ideas.
Cross country  is  one of the sport , where we have  many interesting feedback s and is one of m  favorite  sports  as I  come  form this area  being involved in coaching  in Switzerland  or the  1988  Olympics in Calgary  where we  won  Gold and Silver in Nordic combined  and had  one often best  team  result   at the at  time over  50 km. Cross country skiing is one of the sport  who shows  hoe   worthless LT  really is. We have a huge muscle group involved  and depending on  technique  we may have a big    O2 independent  activity in one   body part like legs , but a perfectly O2  dependent  activity in the upper body   and vica  verca.
 So  we may  see a very  small lactate  increase in the finger sampling,  but a huge net production in the legs  and a great  up take in the heart a and upper body of lactate. So  ideas like 1  mmol increase in two  sequent  steps  in many  cross country skiers  never  works  as  you  have situations, where the highest levels my  be  3 . 4  or   something like that.
Cross country is a  sport, where we   can  nicely see  cardiac limitation if this is the limiter the best  way.


 Assessment protocol  for  cross country  skiing.
5/1/5  or  4/1/4 . Best option on the snow. Use a GPS  for speed  flat   loop    of 500 - 1000 m  so it is easy to observe,
 If you have a loop, as we  use , you  even could have live feedback over  a Wasp system  and  MOXY.
 Take the average  speed if you have a  speed. Same  on roller skies  but than use a  slight uphill section.

Second  best options  t  do a  5 min step test  with 1 min breaks  and  just simply  try to increase speed every 5 min.

You can do in skate  skiing or diagonal .
But  you as well can do  just  double pole  o  just leg  movement   if you look for skate skiing feed backs.  You can doe  double pole   skate steps  imitation in the gym  ,  and than you use  HR as the step increase  so  you increase every 5 min  after 1 min rest   the intensity  by  10 - 15   beats.

Leg  moxy position  is  either  quadriceps  VL  for  skate skiing  and  for  classical  but  for classical skiing you may as well  fix moxy on  Glut  max  or on  a hamstrings  muscle.
 Upper body  triceps  or  latissimus. you may be as well nicely  

 For  workouts  it is great  in a strength  facility as you  use tHB   depending on the goal  .
 For   the goal of the Birkebiner you  can do   upper body  work     and use  tHb  if your goal is  to   stimulate  utilization  or   you like to  stimulate   delivery. Live feedback  as well  in the gym.
 You can make a  great workouts   when you use   moxy  upper and lower body  so you   switch  from upper body  work to lower body  work  by   creating a  delivery problem in the legs  but a  great deliver y in the arms  and  as soon you have to switch  to switch  and eat a delivery problem in the arms    and no  delivery problem in the legs.  Last but not least  in cross-country skiing the key in strength  workouts is the functional pattern in cross-country skiing, which is the same as  we have    hockey  , running  or  any   body motion sports.

 We name it DNA  pattern  or  some  use    a similar idea  as  Spiral  muscle pattern.  Will look  for pictures  as well   will  look for  cross country dryland  test   examples  and some great samples  we   have  from our  friends  from Norway. So please  come back  and  take  critic  if it is too messy.
 

Michael Pilhofer

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 2
 #3 
Oh man...GREAT STUFF.  Thanks Juerg.

I will need to ponder what you were saying but right out of the gate, some questions came up.

We won't have the ability to do a Skiing Test...so it will have to be one of the alternative methods you mentioned.  You talk about a 5min step test.  Could you do that with a Versa Climber, which I have, using legs only?  In that 5 - 1 - 5 Format?  Or would a 12" step work better?  

If it's an actual BOX Type step-up, I'm not 100% clear to the testing protocol.

If we can use the Versa, my question would be do we just make educated guesses at to intensity/pacing...working to the athletes failure point?

Then after that, we can look at the data and interpret the results?  He doesn't have a Garmin to connect HR with Peri Pedal.  I think Rich mentioned he lend me his to use...as we'd have to have this data collected along side the MOXY details to interpret.  

Again, thanks so much for your quick and thorough reply.  Appreciate your expertise and insights.

MSP
juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #4 
The versa  is a fun  equipment. If  you use it  the  way  they tell it is  okay great  for the  legs  but  minimal  for the arms, if  people are not used   to work on it. The other problem is the arm  and leg move  on the same  side up  and down   together  which is  completely off   a natural idea as normally  right leg  goes up and  left  arm like in walking or  diagonal skiing. So better is  to just use legs  only  and hold arms  on the front   handle  bar.  You  can do  for the legs  as  normal  with  using the steps  and   I think its  load as well  you  can see  for  step wise increase. I will  show a verca  climber test   Mary Ann in Santa Anna CA for the company and for climbers ,If  I can find it.
 Than if you go the opposite on the versa  so  on the back side,  you  actually will use arms  mainly, as you are like in an overhang situation.  I  will try to get a picture  for you a or a drawing,  but another way you can do it  is  with a  teraband  type  of  an elastic or a Fitband with  hand grips  and a   fixation on a   weight equipment.
. Than you have   a  few options there. You  can take  a metronome  or pacer  and you do  20  double  pole and jumps  per minute  for  4   or  5 in  followed  by   1 min rest,  than  25  jumps  than  30  and so on. Or you can use a  glide board  and  do skate  imitation  and  double pole . Or  you can use  HR  as the load   so  100 HR  for  5  min  than increase speed so HR goes up  to  120  than  140  and so on. Many options  you can use.
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