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Kirill

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 #31 
I believe that it is possible to take 100-500 strongest racers and to look at the relation of individual records for 5, 10, 15 seconds and watts for 1, 5, 20, 60 minutes. Though it already most likely was done, I rely on estimates that more than 40 +/-5% can't be made the 20th minute power relatively Pmax

https://www.zwiftpower.com/rankings.php
juergfeldmann

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 #32 
I am not sure what you like to point out  with this as most will agree with that statement. (as  it was tested as you point out many times.)
 We looked  at  that  in  cycling camps in Spain, where we tested over 2000 cyclist in this regard  to  try to understand why we had  this different results. There are very individual reasons  from cardiac limitation to repsiratroy limitation to coordination limitation to local  muscle metabolic limitation  from the main  involved  muscles and so on. Even changing bike position can influence this.
 That is exactly why we have no cook book and why we try to create a  simple (  with  mistake )  assessment  idea to get as close as  possible to limitation  information and  compensation information in this matter.
 The  interesting  question is  why    they can not  maintain  and  whether there  are different reasons  on this  and not just  hypertrophy  or muscle strength / power.
Kirill

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 #33 
Lower-Body Skeletal Muscle and Cycling Power

It has long been established that rat soleus, which contains ~95% slow-twitch muscle fibers, is capable of producing 26 W/kg muscle, whereas rat plantaris containing ~95% fast-twitch fibers can produce 144 W/kg.32 Using dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA), Haakonssen et al 33 examined the relationship between lower-body lean mass (LBLM) and maximum mean cycling power (MMP) over different durations ranging from 1 second to 10 minutes. As expected, competitive female cyclists with greater LBLM produced greater absolute cycling power (1 kg LBLM ≈ 9% increase in MMP1s and 4% increase in MMP10min). For a 30-second maximum sprint, regression analysis indicated that 1 kg of muscle mass was associated with an additional 35-W power output. Elite female cyclists were capable of producing approximately 50 to 80 W/kg muscle based on DXA assessment of LBLM and the highest 1-second power produced during an all-out 6-second sprint. Precise estimates of cycling power per unit of muscle mass will require attention to techniques used to quantify lean mass in the lower body with DXA and overall cycling power produced during cycle-ergometer tests. Although cross-sectional relationships do not always predict changes in performance for the individual, these relationships enable optimal body composition to be modeled. Using such MMP–LBLM regressions33 it is possible to estimate functional consequences of changing body mass with and without changes in LBLM. In some cases a hill climber may tolerate slight losses of LBLM because the improvements in overall power to weight are advantageous despite a minor loss in MMP10min. A case study by Haakonssen et al34 revealed the magnitude and time course of changes in body composition that occurred in an elite female road cyclist recovering from a period of chronic fatigue associated with poor body-mass management. Over 5 months this cyclist lost 3 kg of body mass and ~30 mm in skinfolds (sum of 7 skinfold sites). This case study demonstrated that resistance training and dietary manipulations (ie, adequate protein intake concomitant with a daily energy deficit) can cause fat mass to decrease by approximately 4 kg while simultaneously stimulating lean mass to increase by just over 1 kg. For this cyclist, the obvious decrease in body mass did not reveal the advantageous body-composition changes that had been promoted by resistance training.34 Furthermore, the importance of LBLM for endurance-cycling performance is also shown in a recent study by Vikmoen et al,35 who after a 12-week strength-training intervention in well-trained female cyclists observed a significant correlation between the change in mean power output during a 40-minute all-out test and change in cross-sectional area of quadriceps femoris (r = .73). Note that a significant correlation between change in performance VO2 during the 40-minute all-out trial and the change in cross-sectional area of the quadriceps muscles (r = .59) was also observed. Indeed, it has been reported that cyclists who use a larger amount of their muscle mass have larger fractional utilization of VO2max. This has been suggested to be explained by a larger amount of activated mitochondria.36 This may allow the increased power output to be sustained with unchanged relative load experienced by the mitochondria, thereby improving fractional utilization of VO2max.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27068517
Kirill

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 #34 
https://www.google.ru/search?q=lower-body+lean+mass+correlation+wingate

In general, I do not want to convince anyone.
Little attention in muscle hypertrophy in sports for endurance can be explained by the fact that there are quite a lot of problems in order to make the endurance of what is, to develop oxygen transport.

But there are people who have worked out all their meat, and go at full recruitment of meat on a low pulse (for example 140-150), which indicates a 2-3 fold reserve of oxygen delivery.



Figure-2-Relationship-between-absolute-peak-power-PP-and-lean-body-mass-LBM.png 

juergfeldmann

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 #35 
Nice feedback.
 I like the  rat   research as we know  by now  that  this research  never translates  to humans  but it is  still popular.
 The other  question for  strength is  not  disputed  and when people have a strength or muscular  limitation it works. On the other side we know now  that you only  can produce power or performance , when you  have a  proper  delivery  of  energy O2.
 Easy to see in people  ( not rats) after  a heart attack  the  day or  2 after. Delivery is limited  suddenly  but no loss  of  muscular strength. What do we expect on performance.?
Same in respiratory limitation. Take a cyclist in top  shape and he gets a cold  and some bronchitis . Same muscle ability  lower performance  . Why ?  Why do we focus on muscle Nicely research  and  in many case we very successful as this is  often the limiter.
 Why  do we not look   yet  at cardiac  situations  and   somewhat starting to look  at respiratory limitation.
 Because many  coaches  and scientists  do not   know  yet  how to train  the cardiac system like a  r. ventricular development or how to train respiration and so on. So  easier to use  performance  and strength and %  as it look s pretty organized.
What  stimulation or pharmacological  substances  are  use  or abuse  for   today's performance enhancing besides testosterone  or  anabolic  steroids.
 ?
Kirill

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Posts: 94
 #36 
I up my 1 sec max from 700 >> 1200 w
5sec 680 >> 1110 w

Buy vo2master, wait delivery feb-mar 2018, while waiting for hope to raise their peak watt to 1400-1500. So far, training for muscle hypertrophy is effective in increasing muscle mass and watts.

After arrival, together with the oximeter, I will conduct my endurance training.

So used the same time for such a russian spirometer Volid , but it is not portable.

On this device it was easy to create a 5-liter airflow in one breath, in the amount of 170 liters per minute.

[0Go5g1xY-5w]
Kirill

Development Team Member
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Posts: 94
 #37 
Wmax + Pmax and Pmean very important performance determinant, you can never raise your ftp above 40-45% of your 5 second watts.

page 21 http://sci-hub.tw/10.1139/apnm-2016-0362
page 27 http://sci-hub.tw/10.1519/JSC.0000000000002253

12333.jpg  123.jpg 

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