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juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
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Posts: 1,501
 #16 
again lots  of numbers  and we  tend  to choose the once we like to accept
Here  some  feedback   on the 2.9  VC 1   situation. In the case  we  have a 59  year old   male  with a  2.9  VC  1  You  can se by  60 +  2.9  is  in canada  the norm   tested over the lasts 5 years on thousands  of  people  form statistic  Canada. 

VC  VC1.jpg 

Than  the EDV  numbers   in one of the latest   magnetic  resonance  studies   EDV  mean  male  160  with    extreme  from 106 -  214 

Normal values for cardiovascular magnetic resonance in adults and children

  • Nadine Kawel-Boehm,
  • Alicia Maceira,
  • Emanuela R Valsangiacomo-Buechel,
  • Jens Vogel-Claussen,
  • Evrim B Turkbey,
  • Rupert Williams,
  • Sven Plein,
  • Michael Tee,
  • John Eng and
  • David A BluemkeEmail author

Journal of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance201517:29

DOI: 10.1186/s12968-015-0111-7

©  Kawel-Boehm et al.; licensee BioMed Central. 2015

Received: 1 October 2014

Accepted: 6 January 2015

Published: 18 April 2015

  edv.jpg 






Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #17 
I've seen athletes MRI with 380 ml of LV EDV, not save link, sorry.
among the links below the maximum 321 ml. 
People with cardiac pathologies found numbers 500+
One former athlete pulse was 25 beats in stroke volume of about 300 ml

With serious daily training (6-10 hour/week or more) that absolutely normal baseline left ventricular increased by + 30-100%

http://circimaging.ahajournals.org/content/9/4/e003579

Безымянн4кк34432выый.png 

http://circimaging.ahajournals.org/content/6/2/329

Безымян9ный.png 



Безымян9ный.png 


https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1532-429X-12-8


Безымянн44432выый.png 



Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #18 
FEV1 5+ enough for cycling. Armstrong had a 5.4 liter FEV1
http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/C118.pdf

Безымянн4кк3443332выый.png 

Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #19 

I have read hundreds of studies, in fact do all that could be found on PubMed, this forum is not read completely.

Now head of such a model for the development of endurance - the endurance athlete, the less he smo2 at the end of the test, and it is not associated with the O2 transport problems, as it can be and HR 170.

U-shaped curve smo2 shows strong acidification (H+, lactate, ROS and other metabolite) and as a consequence of excessive growth of heart rate and pulmonary ventilation, which leads to an increase in Smo2.

Next week I will buy a portable device for measurement of pulmonary ventilation, respiratory rate (mask with a turbine), it will be possible to look VT2.

ebd8fd.jpg 

[________+2] 


juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #20 
Sounds  great  and for  people interests in portable devices.
 look at Vacumed in Ventura  or the VO2 master from Canada  which is a wireless  portable  VO2  equipment.

this forum is not read completely.

Absolutely  AND THAT'S  WHY WE ARE  VERY THANKFUL FOR  IDEAS AND FEEDBACK  FROM you GREAT JOB  GREAT  INFORMATION  GREAT  HELP TO MAKE  THIS FORUM  EVEN NICER IN AN OPEN MINDED  COMMUNITY.  So great feedback    for sure  for  high performance ideas and  cycling in this case.
  A  big  group  or the biggest group  of NIRS  users  are  mainly therapists  and   personal coaches  so one by one   with individual feedback's  and not  really based on statistical ideas. So  the example here  show  how  big  he variation is  in  feedback once we look the big options we have of different people.  Thanks  again for your contribution. Super interesting  and great.
Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #21 
A sufficiently large number the information on this forum, recording of seminars YouTube - the key point why chose Moxy.

I wrote about 16 pages of synopsis studies PubMed, if you want I can post here. You will correct me, I'm a beginner in the field of NIR spectroscopy, and only a few weeks do matter, but for 3 years studying the physiology of sports, working with athletes.

Sports - my hobby, my main activity is IT and analytics, databases.

jschiltz

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Posts: 48
 #22 
The most interesting part of this thread will be when the "rubber meets the road" - meaning when a full 5-1-5 assessment or 5 minute step gradient test is done with the Moxy.

The reason I say that is I find everything posted here super interesting and way WAY above my head in terms of physiological knowledge, but that helps me learn.   But want I really want to know is how accurate all those formulas and calculations are......

Plus the Moxy assessments will provide additional information to improve as a cyclist and also new topics and avenues to research.

A hemi Cuda from the 70's and a brand new corvette make the same horsepower... but one goes alot faster than the other.  


Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #23 
a burning sensation in the chest prevent, fatigue of the respiratory muscles. To clean burning do hyperventilate during intervals. I think a 5-6 week regular interval training, I get rid of these unpleasant sensations. At the moment I train every day 3 weeks.

1 liter of oxygen to 2 ventilation threshold requires 20-25 liters, therefore 5+ FEV1  provides almost endless reserves (150-230 ventilation = 6-9 litres O2).

ventilation_fev1.gif fev1.jpg 

sebo2000

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Posts: 211
 #24 

I wrote about 16 pages of synopsis studies PubMed, if you want I can post here. You will correct me, I'm a beginner in the field of NIR spectroscopy, and only a few weeks do matter, but for 3 years studying the physiology of sports, working with athletes.

Hi Kirill, can you post the link, I will surly not be correcting, but I'm quite interested in reading it.




Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #25 
320 watts (95% current Wmax), 5 min. 80-85 cadence.
End HR ~175
Limiter - muscle strength (hypertrophy, Wmax, Pmax). Need hypertrophy training)
Right VL. 01052017_320W_5MIN.png 

juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #26 
Interesting.
I never  would be able  based on just  this  one  VL information  without  hints of  cardiac trends  like HR  and RF trends and if possible a second  muscle   group like   another priority  muscle like RF  or a non priority  muscle  like  delta  pars  acr. ,  to make an absolute statement  like that, and even  than  as  many readers  can see there are  always open  questions  so  I often    do a  confirmation  load    for example if  I think it is muscular  I  do a muscular overload  or  a  respiratory  overload  and so on. 
 But  if this is possible  to make  based on this  single  pictures  and absolute statement well good  for any body  who is able to  do this  and great  for the    athlete  who will commit  time  to  work on his  limiter.  Now  one point  we discussed very often. In  many cases    there is  a muscular limitation    so  %  wise a  big chance  that  this  may be a muscular limitation .
 
Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #27 
I read researches where watched an EMG in critical power / wingate tests. EMG (recruitment) from the beginning of the wingate  test / critical power practically doesn't change, but watts that decrease. And to where they decrease? To digits to 35% to 45% of Pmax, if this trained athlete, and to as much as necessary small %% if it is the weak person, there are people at which an anaerobic (4 mmol) threshold of 30 watts.. 

Why watts fall it an interesting question (CrP, narrow links of exchange between a mitochondrion and ATP elements of calcium pumps and miofibrills), but having a little practical value.

Therefore, on pulse and not on an oxygenation muscular restriction should be watched by no means but only on Wmax relation to Pmax, or 5-10-20 minute tests to Pmax.

Achievement of level of 40% Wmax/Pmax or FTP/Pmax also more says that it is necessary to hypertrophy muscles. And these Moxy+HR just as an indicator that on delivery the huge reserve, is what to feed new myofibrils.

Also perhaps this about the Moxy showing lack of growth smo2 and Thb it is possible to treat as lack of Bohr effect and very severe acidosis though I and so on lack of burning in muscles understand that there is no strong acidulation/
juergfeldmann

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 #28 
Very interesting points as usual.
 One   interesting  question is :

Also perhaps this about the Moxy showing lack of growth smo2 and Thb it is possible to treat as lack of Bohr effect and very severe acidosis though I and so on lack of burning in muscles understand that there is no strong acidulation/

For  potential trends  an answers  to this point    we have  to  do a closer look at the end of a load  and see the  trend in SmO2  and tHb there.
 (  respiratory limitation ( not  respiratory metaboreflex)  If  you have a csv  file  form the data including HR  than we can zoom in  and we have  to knwo  when the load  stopped  or  we may actually see it  but nice  to  have the wattage  feedback as well. Nice  as well  would be if  you have  respiratory  feedback  on  RF  and   even nicer   TV  so trend in VE over  possible  changes in RF  and TV.  Now  in this    direction. If  we have a systemic   H +  overload  than we see this  as well in a  non-priority  muscle . If  we have a muscular overload only as   suspected in your data s  than we  woudl see this  locally  but not  systemically.  Thanks  for the  nice  contribution on here as  usual.
DanieleM

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Posts: 264
 #29 
Hi Kirill,

not sure I understood what you wanted to say in your post:
Quote:
I read researches where watched an EMG in critical power / wingate tests. EMG (recruitment) from the beginning of the wingate  test / critical power practically doesn't change, but watts that decrease. And to where they decrease? To digits to 35% to 45% of Pmax, if this trained athlete, and to as much as necessary small %% if it is the weak person, there are people at which an anaerobic (4 mmol) threshold of 30 watts.. 

Why watts fall it an interesting question (CrP, narrow links of exchange between a mitochondrion and ATP elements of calcium pumps and miofibrills), but having a little practical value.

Therefore, on pulse and not on an oxygenation muscular restriction should be watched by no means but only on Wmax relation to Pmax, or 5-10-20 minute tests to Pmax. 

Achievement of level of 40% Wmax/Pmax or FTP/Pmax also more says that it is necessary to hypertrophy muscles. And these Moxy+HR just as an indicator that on delivery the huge reserve, is what to feed new myofibrils.

Also perhaps this about the Moxy showing lack of growth smo2 and Thb it is possible to treat as lack of Bohr effect and very severe acidosis though I and so on lack of burning in muscles understand that there is no strong acidulation/


It's very difficult to even look at your graph: there is no evidence on when the 5 minute test started.
Please try to zoom it or have a different graph.
From what I can see it seems like SmO2 is dropping and this despite delivery is likely increasing through the interval.

You mentioned CPr in a Wingate test and I think is one of the main contributor of the Power fall in the last 10/15 seconds.
Of course oxygen is very involved as well and possibly SmO2 may reach very low values since the delivery system could not even reach its maximum capacity in such a short interval.

juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #30 
Daniele  nice feedback as usual

You mentioned CPr in a Wingate test and I think is one of the main contributor of the Power fall in the last 10/15 seconds.
Of course oxygen is very involved as well and possibly SmO2 may reach very low values since the delivery system could not even reach its maximum capacity in such a short interval. 

Will try to  dig out  a fascinating  section from  some  research  done in Capetown  by  T.Noaks group on that. It is somewhere on this  forum but  will be a great  review  for new  readers.  As well I   just discussed  some  fun parts  on the  phone concerning the hypertrophy ideas in   endurance sport . As well  will dig a  nice  paper  out  form  I think   Denmark  and  the muscle  research institute  not  sure   but will inf d  it with some interesting  question.
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