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Kirill

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 #1 
Hello.

These tests detrained state, especially for the sake of buying oxygenation monitor completely excluded all training.

My heart rate monitor can not transmit data at this time.

The machine (smart trainer) - Elite Drivo

2012-13 years my Lung Vital capacity 7 l, LVEDV 225 ml.
My LVEDV 160 was a year ago in detrained state, the hemoglobin in the last test was about 155-168

1) The step test, starting 70 HR, 178 HR final, failure due to the inability to push the pedal a bicycle 340 watts, fall cadense. My real Wmax not more 320 watts

Ramp Test 20170215T2016 - 15.02.2017 20-21 - Kirill.jpg 
Ramp Test 20170215T2016 - 15.02.2017 20-21 - Kiril2l.jpg 



2) Test the FTP below, I quietly chatted while it was at the beginning of a pulse 100, then stood at 140, and then 5 minutes grew to 165, and so was most of the test. A burning sensation in the legs were not, in general, on a ten scale, about 3 points of difficulty.
Manual Ride - 17.02.2017 21-07 - Kirill.jpg 

Questions -
1) SmO2 than growth (U style) at the end of step test? reason? My thoughts - an increase of delivery, I in good shape (O2 ~5+ l/min) when I get to the heart rate of 186 heart rate begins to curve downwards. As far as I know there are people who have heart stroke volume increases to 190 pulse, the entire test and did not stabilize at 120-150.
2) What limits? In my opinion is the ability of muscles to consume oxygen (today). My LVEDV 160 was a year ago in detrained state, the hemoglobin in the last test was about 155-168. This may give oxygen delivery at 380-450 watts. 


Kirill

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 #2 
Fun test 5-10-15-20-25 seconds hold 300 watts and 175 RPM test (SmO2 drop 4%)

after 20 and 25 sec SmO2 drop 10%

My explanation - O2 delivery did not have time to respond fully, but I still have a little experience with Moxy


I will be glad to hear your interpretation!

340-400-500 - 17.02.2017 8-50 - Kirill3.jpg

Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #3 
But in general, if we talk seriously (500++ watts Wmax) of course limiting element is the physical strength of the legs. I have to be at 40-60% physically stronger, my current 5-second sprint 700-730 watts, and should be 1200+ w, in good shape I 1000-watt.
Current body weight is 68 kg.

In my experience this is necessary to squat 120*10 and / or leg press 280-300 kg *10
CraigMahony

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Posts: 159
 #4 
Hi Kirill. Welcome. I would suggest that if you want to find limiters you need to do longer steps in your ramp test or do a 5-1-5 assessment as described  in the ebooks on the Moxy website. The reason being that 30 second steps is not long enough to reach homeostasis. In a 5-1-5 assessment, the 1 minute rest between loads gives a chance to see the response and this can give us some information on limiters.
Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #5 
5-1-5 for a man from the sofa to the refusal to work - it's too hard. I remember doing 40 minute step test, endured burning about 20 minutes more so I do not. Maybe later, though of course I watched images tieh who made the 5-1-5, I did not see them any useful information.
80-20 rule >> 30 sec = 80% info, 5-1-5 give +10-20% info
CraigMahony

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 #6 
The 5-1-5 is not a maximum assessment unless you make it so. You just keep going until your SmO2 has a continuous decline or in other words, it does stabilize anymore. This should start just above your FTP. (Much discussion in here on FTP and related issues). The first pair of loads should be easy. The second pair still somewhat easy, the third below your FTP still, so it should be OK. The last pair should be above your FTP so will be hard. So 10 minutes of harder cycling with a 1 minute break in the middle. So it is possible to do only 40 minutes of cycling with only 10 minutes that are somewhat difficult if you pick you loads well.

In the one minute breaks, what the tHb does can tell you if you have muscular compression issues that obstructs venous and / or arterial blood flow. This indicates if/when strength becomes an issue. tHB combined with SmO2 can tell you if your respiratory system is an issue.
juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #7 
Thanks  Craig. I  still have a problem  when people  write

5-1-5 for a man from the sofa to the refusal to work - it's too hard.

This is   unfortunate  because  they still do not have the  physiological  back ground on performance.
We  do 5/1 5/  with people post   ops    after cardiac  surgery  as soon allowed. We  do 5/1/5  with people who had a stroke and are allowed  to stand up. We  do 5/1/5  with  severe overweight people  who never worked  out the last  25 years  .  If  you understand  the physiological idea  than  you see, what a  5/1/5  is  very  easy   with exception of  perhaps  but not even  the last 2  double steps. It is NEVER  intense   really as  this information is  not needed  at all.  

Some  more   explanation or  first  question.

LVEDV 225 ml.
 He  means most likely Left Ventricular end diastolic  volume. ???

If  that is the case  it has  limited   value of  telling us  about  his  CO, as CO is  SV  x  HR

So  a  big   EDV  can be  very positive as a great   pre load  may be here but   it can eeb as well very negative  as a  cardiac  enlargement with minimal  elasticity so not very good.
 What we need is the EF %  to the  EDV  or  the  SV to  have some better ideas on the cardiac hemodynamic
  Last    but not least  tHb  take the  g/dl out of  the sdacel  as it is NOT  the true value   you  only look at the trend of  tHb  as  an indicator  or blood  volume or  flow.
 

Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #8 
LV ejection fraction 70%
morning rest hr 38-42 
sleep hr 36
seat hr 47-50

I read a study that load ejection fraction may be increased to 85% and left ventricular EDV increase by 10-20%

My 1 liter O2 = 82 watts
if extraction 90%

1) 90%exctraction*190hr*160lvedv*85%lvef*1.34*168hb/82w=5200 ml O2 or 423 watts
2) 90%exctraction*190hr*225lvedv*85%lvef*1.34*155hb/82w=6800 ml O2 or 557 watts

if extraction 70%
1) 333 watts
2) 433 watts

if 60%
1) 286 w
2) 371 w
juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #9 
Her  some additional   feedback's, as  too many  calculations are used  when we  today  can tests most  live and  it is very individual .
 For  people  who have no  Physio flow handy. 
 CO  at rest   is as well HR  x  SV.
 So  a person in the above   size  +-  had a  resting  CO  of  4.5 - 5 l / min/ 
So resting HR of  40  gives a  SV  of  ?

 Now  we have his feedback of  70 %  EF.
 160  was  his  latest  EDV
So    SV  is  ?

 Now  one more  nice feedback   and we discussed this already before  so here just a flash back

As far as I know there are people who have heart stroke volume increases to 190 pulse, the entire test and did not stabilize at 120-150.

Here   the   flash back.

different   trends in sv in step test.jpg 


Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #10 
My friend has left ventricle EDV 208 ml and real Wmax 580 watt.

He trains like me no more than 5 hours a week.
So I know the athletes on the payroll who train 5 hours a day and have a left ventricular EDV 100-120 ml and LV SV 60-70 ml.

Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #11 
Today did spirometry FEV1 5300 ml. The doctor said that it is normal that it is lower than last time, but according to research at this level is enough to consume 6-7 liters O2.
Kirill

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Posts: 93
 #12 

The methodology proposed by a Russian physiologist, though perhaps use something like this in the US.

The test is with the lowest load, for example 10 watts or otherwise determined as the aerobic threshold (2 mmol first ventilation threshold). Then, from the initial stages through VT1 draw a line to the pulse 190-200, and that is where it will show is the potential for heart pumping oxygen.

Accordingly vo2max common potential 100, and even more than 130 ml / kg / min in determining such a method.

Validation of these very large numbers is a step test cadence 120-130 rpm, if the actual VO2MAX increases, you will not make a mistake. If no growth - or mistake, or very very low aerobic capacity of muscles that can not consume more oxygen from the cadence of growth....

If the muscle glycolytic and produce metabolites, they cause unnecessary stimulation of the heart and respiratory muscles, heart rate exaggerating.

Number 3 4 and 5 are curves Indurain, Armstrong and Froom, they have no fractures, straight line.

1 - I am the worst of its form, after more than a year without training.
2 - I am after a rather light workout, visible fracture  after power 100 watts

When I start to do some serious training, the heart rate curve does not grow up, on the contrary, it starts to fall down with increasing load.


600 watts.. Quite a controversial method, because of the huge numbers that explode the brain in many ways to verify these numbers I bought the device Moxy.



4января2016вело60оборотов.jpg 

RAZMETKA2.jpg

juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #13 
lot's of interesting numbers. We  tend  to  forget  actual numbers   and look  individual reality . Example  : 
 Today did spirometry FEV1 5300 ml.


So  what  was the  actual VC 6  or  Vital capacity  today.  If  we go  form  the theory it had  to be 6.62 L  or more  otherwise  he would have a theoretical  obstructive lung problem. Singer  or   trumpet  player  have a much higher  VC but  have not a  for sure  not  always a  6 - 7 l O2   utilization.
There  is  so many numbers  we  can play  with  and we really like to see   individual what it iss. Same  with prediction of performance. If  I like to see how   my client is performing I simply  do a performance test  from A to B  and look what he can do rather than to predict  same  with  VO2  max ,  Max  HR   FTP  calculation .  Stimulation and reality is  what I see now as I am doing it.  That is  the fundamental difference between physiological training and  calculated hopefulness.
Jiri Dostal

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Posts: 50
 #14 
Just a quick question to LVEDV and other hemodynamic parameters you do not mention. How did you measure? Echo, NMR, PhysioFlow? Or even invasive? LVEDV is of course very important, but this is just piece of puzzle. How big and heavy are you, as indexed volumes are more precise? More than 200ml can considered pathologial or at least shoudl be carefully examinated to prove it as traning myocardial remodelation and not pathology.
Thx
Jiri
Kirill

Development Team Member
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Posts: 93
 #15 

I did echocardiography in the past.
It is still not done, for free I do not have a sufficient basis, the ECG is done 2 days ago so good.

I'm monitoring heart rate variability (RR), no deviations.

Actually I've read studies where athletes are under 380 ml of LV EDV. Patients under 500.
160-200 is not a lot.

Although I am not an expert on measuring and what formulas are used it is difficult to judge whether these numbers are comparable.

I rely on the data that the FEV1 2.9 liters is likely there is a limit of ventilation, and the limit of the VO2MAX.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20955824

Image from "Lung function, arterial saturation and oxygen uptake in elite cross country skiers: influence of exercise mode" H.-C. Holmberg



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