Development Team Member
Registered: 1428936181 Posts: 36
I had planned to come back here once I had more assessment sessions with both units, but recently I am having more problems with the BSX connecting properly with ANT+ power and HR for assessments (and it seems I am not the only user with such problems).
If someone interested in both units finds this thread, I though it might be useful if this is kind of summarized including additional experience, so, that's what I am going to write. I am not a specialist in this field though, so, I hope someone will correct me if I write nonsense. Conceptually, the one big difference is obviously that MOXY gives raw data, while the BSX gives an interpretation of the data. With the MOXY you will quickly find that different systems (muscles, breathing, heart), different muscles (e.g. on the same leg as well as compared left to right) or even different locations on the same muscle behave differently, and there is nothing like a single LT value for your whole body. With the MOXY you might find and train your weak systems, or, find and train your strong systems, or, just properly check how your body really works, so it's potentially way more useful if you spend enough brain and time with it. Notice though of course, that the MOXY data is also just an indirect indicator for what your muscles are doing, so interpretation is everything. My motivation for getting the BSX was to get rid of the variability of FTP tests (those where you'd ride as strong as possibly for 8 or 20 or 60 minutes) caused by differences between sessions in pacing and strength of will. Now having used the BSX for several times, I find that difference in choice of cadence, pedaling technique, daily condition, rest time, sleep, time of day, etc will influence the threshold value I get from the BSX, and correctly so. Do not expect the BSX to give precise feedback on your training status. The other problem with the BSX at this moment though seems to be that it's neither reliable enough(having problems connecting with power and HR sensors) nor has adequate customer support (system).
Development Team Member
Registered: 1419284397 Posts: 279
To add to this. I had done a test a month ago and saw my result on the dashboard. I looked at my dashboard again 2 weeks ago and suddenly my results changed. Very very strange and of course not possible. I think they have a lot of problems. This is by the way my second unit. The first one I could not load. And i also experience it does not pick up the Heart rate data. In essence it should be simple but it more fingers crossed.
Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
Thanks for an incredible nice feedback and for me at least it is super help-full to understand where my messy Brain still has to learn to get the message over, where I think somewhat different. ( which does not mean it is the Truth just different and open for discussion) Here my point where I may need help form readers on this forum: " Conceptually, the one big difference is obviously that MOXY gives raw data, while the BSX gives an interpretation of the data.For me the MOXY , what people call raw data is a direct interpretation on what happens. It is what I look for , when I work with clients. A live feedback and a live interpretation on what I see. . A classical lactate test or a classical VO2 test is for me a concept, which I can't use live and therefor is for me not an interpretation but a indication on where I may hopefully be, when I use the test data as HR or as % of VO2 when my clients make a workout. Hmm lets' see, whether I can explain that better. Any testing we did in the past created an end result on this test day under this specific conditions. . Now we take this result as an "absolute" point and calculate somehow a physiological zoning based on the % or perhaps on some trends from what ever data I collected. Example below is a classical lactate test from 1987. It shows a " normal" diet and a high carb and a low carb (glucose ) diet situation and the result , when they did a LT assessment. As you can see we have very different curves with therefor very different outcomes, when we plan zoning's based on one of the three curves. The curve is a lactate step test concept with yes an interpretation based on the situation which happened on the test day. Based on this specific test day interpretation ,we now assume as a concept , that when using this performance wattage or this HR we stimulate a certain intensity. That is based on a lot of hope and believes. So for me now I like to take raw live data and look on day x whether today, when pushing the wattage from the test day , the physiological situation is the same or not. So instead of pushing the wattage I use the wattage and than adjust the wattage accordingly to my live raw data and the goal I have set for today's workout. Now to not always " hack " and criticize the lactate , I like to show a VO2 example. This is a study done to see, how different equipment situations may influence VO2 max and therefore performance. FM is for face mask and is a mask so you can breath with mouth and nose as we often do when going hard. MP is mouth piece as many great VO2 equipment may use a mouth piece and they clamp your nose. We did a third version which was nose breathing only but I like to show here an accepted study and not something from our kitchen. In short as you can see, : The way we can move air in and move air out so CO2 directly influences the result in VO2 max as well as in performance. Now why do I take this example. You ride outside and you may have one day free airflow and the next day due to pollen or what ever have a stuffed nose. Same as in this test. So Your calculated zoning based on a FM ability to breath now moves to a MP situation and is very different. The HR or the wattage you use as calculated , guidance is not very help full in this case as well. So the dream would be to see live ( raw data ,) whether you have to adjust performance and HR and perhaps respiration pattern to actually produce the intensity you had planed to use as today's stimulation. Now I like to add a third picture here to try to explain. Below is one of many studies we did unpublished ,but I am sure we will have earlier than later accepted group either taking the result apart or confirming it. What you see is the lactate trends with change in diet as we have from the 1987 studies and many more studies. The lactate curve moves to the right indicating an improvement of performance, when in fact performance is often worse when completely empty of glucose. When the lactate curve moves to the right we see the SmO2 curve moving to the left and as such indicating a drop in performance ,so the opposite on what lactate would indicate due to positioning of the curve. Live O2 feedback tells us more likley the reality and live lactate values may sent us into the wrong direction ???? . Now the raw MOXy data you can read out live as numbers or as a live graph on the new Garmin watches will exactly do that . They give in my opinion a live interpretation for your current workout.. Go harder , go slower or you are right on . The data I would get from a lactate test whether you did it with blood sampling or indirect with a concept of hopefully the three minute test combined with a hopefully normal loaded glucose situation will give you a wattage or HR which hopefully on day x 12 days after my last lactate test still holds the truth seem to me a great concept but a poor interpretation for a workout intensity. The equipment as well will tell you go harder or slower or you are right on, but you may be completely off, as the right or wrong is based on an information ( interpretation ) done 3 weeks ago under perhaps very different conditions than I have during my todays workout. Why would I go with that feedback, when I have a live feedback ? The MOXY live workout gives me the live interpretation. If my goal was to do a MAX LASS workout, so stable metabolic situation. The test 3 weeks ago tells me 215 watt or 167 HR , than I rather go and look at SmO2 trends which has to be stable and I can do small and short feedbacks during my ride, whether I am on MAX LASS and I can add additional live, whether I am on a max lass situation just for my Limiter or whether I actually use as well a compensator. Easy and fast do do with same small 30 40 seconds loads during my ride. You add wattage and HR to the live feedback of MOXY and you can do all of that. So below an example of a workout with control of interpretation and live raw data. Above: Forget the second half so just look at 40 min preparation for a specific workout. The goal was to find the optimal SmO2 stable level with an optimal stable tHb and a flat HR. . They could use their FTP as a baseline from a FTP test. In this case the FTP was tested at 210 wattage. So they did 10 min 100 watt , 10 min 150 watt , 10 min 200 watt and 10 min 250 watt.. The question they had to answer was: What performance do you think can you push today with stable SmO2 , stable tHb and stabel HR. What do you have to doo and whne in this warm up , if you have to workout now 60 min on the stable SmO2 , stable tHb and stable HR. What is going on when: A) SmO2 is stable, tHb is stable and HR is going up. ? b) SmO2 is stable tHb is dropping and HR is going up? C) Smo2 is dropping HR is going up and tHb is going up ? d) SmO2 is dropping HR is going up and tHb is dropping ? I may show more of questions on physiological thinking I do with my grad 10 - 12 students, who make a carrier prep program in my office. Fun and challanging and the kids are great and love challanges . Now If the task is a stable SmO2 and stable HR and stable tHb I can see live, when and what I may have to change to fullfill this task. So what do I have to do , when SmO2 is stable and HR is going up and tHb is going up for example. You are NOT allowed to change for the moment performance. ??? Summary. I use MOXY raw datas with all of my clients not as a concept, but as a live feedback on immediate adjustments depending on the task I give them to achieve. Same as I would use a HR monitor or a respiratory frequency feedback or a wattage feedback to adjust on the task I set . Please come back as it may sound very confusing ,but help as I think it is very easy.