Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
I am not happy as of yet with the discussion Mark tried to start out, as it is a fundamental discussion on any training tools or training guidance tools we spend money on. From a simple Speed meter to RPM to HR monitor to GPS to power meters in biking to stride frequency counter in running to NIRS equipment's in the near future.
Some sports have more options due to the nature of the sport and the equipment we use, some sports have it more difficult to objectively track actual performance. . So Marks point is a very crucial point. Maybe I will put this another way. If a cyclist wears a Moxy for each ride what metrics can be automatically extracted from the data to help track progress? meaningful This is outside of the lab and away from any controlled protocol. Just every time they go on a training ride. So I will come back on here for a hopefully meaningful discussion on this topic and I already can tell you that I like to hang on the word meaningful much more than on the word metrics ( Smile) I will use some real life examples on what I consider meaningful guiding tools for workouts / training / activity guidance. The key to a fair and interesting dialogue here is to accept the facts, that there is a fundamental difference between guiding a workout based on physiological feed backs versus a metric based on a physical performance information lie speed wattage , levels perhaps time over a distance and so on. Meaning full means for me whether the tool we use to guide a workout really gives us feedback on what we do and how we stress the body and when we may have to change performance intensity to stay in a meaningful stimulation. So the guide is your body rather than the training tool. Meaning full for me as well is the fact, that we use activity or sport to enhance or maintain health. A good health with a lot of fun during n activity will most often give you a personal best. So a training tool to guide a workout, if we use one , should be usable for any person, form the person who lie to improve after a heart attack or a stroke, to a person who had an ACL to a person, who like to run for his 60 th birthday a marathon, to the person, who like tot walk to work as a health improvement rather than taking the car to the small group of people who like to win a gold medal and train for that in any sport. A meaningful tools is not sport specific nor is it for any population group only. It is a tool who can guide us through some open questions and may enhance the fun to learn to understand how our amazing physiological system is working and how all works together as a team. This is the base line for the discussion so many guiding tools already may have lost some brownie points 9 Smile ) I will ask tomorrow a client of mine for permission to use his case and some of his data collection. Than we start we put on the line. a TIP versus a LT versus a MAXLASS, versus 220 - age or any formula update on this idea , we use FTP or any additional version on this like for running and we may use some other ideas where I need your help. We will go thru the zoning or simply through the options the tools will give us and than we start to develop a meaning full training guided outside with this tools. If you have any case study you did you than come an add this to our discussion.
Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
Okay here just before we go to bed let's throw up the first challenge on the meaningful use of any current training equipment tools or devices we discussed above.
Mark's first limitation is as followed. Now the second is that we do NOT limit this ideas for one specific sport ,as if it is a physiological tool or better a meaningful tool , that it has to stand up to the challenge , that it can be used in any endurance activity at least , better is when it a actually can be used in any activity, where doing nothing is included in the activity and by doing nothing I mean no physical movements just for example sitting at home. 1.This is outside of the lab and away from any controlled protocol. Just every time they go on a training ride. 2. Meaningful use of the tool in any endurance activity. So here is the list of ideas we all know and have . -HR controlled workouts based on a) formula 0 b ) real maximal all out test to find M Peak HR ( Max HR) - VO2 max test and than intensities based on 5 of VO2 max using HR or performance or a portable VO2 equipment. so we can use it outside away from controlled protocols. - Lactate ideas either a LT test or a MAXLASS test using either a formula and HR and performance to guide or a portable lactate analyzer for outside assessments during the ride. -performance ideas like FTP or for running 30 min and than using a formula to either guide by HR or % of FTP or running speed so we need something to control performance or again HR guided.- - trend of oxygenation situation and blood flow reactions something like a portamon or MOXY which is used either with a watch combined with HR or directly over a 75 % tablets with a graph or the new Garmin watch with a Graph or SmO2 numbers and tHb. So here meaningful for me would be, that I have client who uses different endurance activity to stay healthy us form a 75 year old person to a cardiac rehab person to an MS client to a dedicated father or mother who likes to challenge herself for a marathon or a world ski loppet or a Grand Fondo. to a word class marathon runner or Grand tour cyclist. All have the same in common just on different levels. They need to use energy to perform on their individual level and have to have a feedback to see whether they load the intensity so they actually can improve on their current limitation to improve their persons performance ability. So here a list suggestion of the sports we look for a meaningful tool for feedback or information in the field away form the lab. Please add an additional endurance sports you like to see, whether the different options we have can be used. 1. Walking 2. Running. 3. Ski touring 4. Cross country skiing 5. Skating ( speed skating for our Dutch fans ) 6. Inline skating for the many inline skaters in Europe 7. Rowing and I add kayaking at the same time.( Flat water and wild water.) 8. Cycling any cycling sport form MTB to cycle cross to Road cycling and BMX please add ore if I forgot your favorite endurance activity. Goal : Come back with a list of tools you may use to have a meaningful control during your workout. The most meaningful control most likely is your body feeling so no tool needed, but if you add a tool write behind each for the sports what you could us or will use. Next up will be a case , where all the above are options for endurance sport and now our client will come and ask us for advice on what to buy so he can control the limitation he has during his endurance activities. Now remember it has to work for the cardiac client in rehab as well as for the top athlete planning to go to RIO. We may have a lot of fun on this challenge ?
Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
Okay next step here in our friendly challenge.
I offer a case and than the different coaches using interesting different ideas we ail may have used or still use offer a meaningful workout as suggested by Mark. So if you are a cycling fan you offer for our case a meaningful cycling workout with the tools available for you . If you are a cross country coach you do the same and so on. My challenge will be that I take on all the offered endurance activity as I postulate, that with NIRS /MOXY it does not matter whether you have a beginner , a rehab person or a world class athlete and it does not matter what activity they do as long we workout in their chosen sport or activity. Reason . It is all about energy supply and demand in the specific activity the person like to workout. If you do not like the case athlete I suggest you can come up with your own one and we can discuss through both cases. Case person for our small challenge. 64 year old male ,175 cm tall, 88 kg weight. Always active but never specific in performance sport. Likes any movement but mainly hiking in the summer , snow shoeing in the winter. Due to some hip discomfort he started to do some cycling now and as all good Canadians he still like s to skate with his grand son. He has a family history of hear attacks as one of his brothers died with 54 and he had some angina but no intervention and has nitro just in case, which he never used as till now. He understand that he has to do some changes and needs some help. His basic simple to assess bio markers are. BP 90 / 130 + RH in back position 74+- in standing normally 83 +- Blood values are decent with a slightly on the higher side Cholesterol. He has a decent diet perhaps can improve in avoiding seat drinks and replace with more water. He had in his Fam doctors office lats time a BP of 90 / 150 and a HR in sitting of 89 +. So the doctor suggested beta-blocker but I talk with the Fam doctor and we agreed on a trial ( 6 month ago was this ) to see what happens with some changes. Reason. I believe ( and confirmed later with Physio flow ) that he has a very small SV. Your know now why and how you do not need always a physio flow ). So to maintain the needed CO for central BP he needs his high HR. By giving him a beta blocker we take only the CO down and therefore he will feel very bad and of minimal energy . The high HR is not great but can be worked on. by improvement SV. There are some more feedback on this person, but this is possible already a lot ore than many coaches will perhaps need or use. So we have one big advantage. We know he is not in great shape cardio vascular. ( possible limitation in CO due to small SV), we know he does not due a lot either so possible limitation in vascularisation and mitochondria density. We have no information as of yet on his respiratory system. Now he like to invest 3 - 4 times a week approx 60 +- minutes . He chooses walking as the start idea as it is easy to do no money investment on too much equipment and he can do it by starting at his house. In the summer he likes to switch to biking. So if you hate walking you simply skip the winter and assume it is now start to cycling season. He has a simple HR monitor form years ago and he has a cheap basic SpO2 sensor from his brother just has to change the batteries. Now to just start out. He really needs nothing other than going 4 x / week for a walk . It nearly does not matter the intensity at first and he will make progress. No matter whether he follows any so called smart ideas including our MOXY guided ideas. This is case is a winner with some small limitation. but he will make progress in all the different systems. But we like to give him a little bit more of an support by using activity to teach him a closer look at how the body works and how amazing it is to be healthy and that it is not for granted. he seems to be very motivated to do that . so Great start for all of us to help him with a meaningful workout when he is going out for 1hour. Now there is some limitation in this discussion. I have NO intention to make a monologue out t of here nor do I response to emails as I do in all other cases. This is a friendly challenge started with a great and clear question by Mark and we only move meaningful forward here, when we do an open fair discussion with simple clear answers. as this is a real case situation. So it can be already the end of this discussion or it can be a real start for many readers to actually get engaged in a meaningful way on the changes and challenges we experience in exercise physiology when moving theory into practical applications.
Development Team Member
Registered: 1364386800 Posts: 168
Juerg, hi,g'morning. I'll wade in with a couple ideas:
1. Known limiter is Cardiac Output, specifically SV and assumption is limited peripheral density/ability, so: 2. To set the initial exercise load his heart rate monitor can guide him to the border of ARI - STE, so as to not "kill" the limiter(s) and possibly use a compensator to help stimulate a greater than normal SV. In this instance there is tool to monitor SpO2, so I guess respiration is the obvious choice they could use to assist stimulation of the limiter(s) ? 3. Client could start to practice easy, steady cardiac loading X deeper "resisted-type" breathing to enhance the tidal volume and possibly influence the cardiac pre/after loads? Making an increase to SV? 4. Now this one is just thinking out load a little more and depending on the level of HR monitor the patient/client has to use, perhaps we can look for the RLX (if is truly older model) or the HRV to point the way to suitable ARI-STE load ? FBF