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Andri

Fortiori Design LLC
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 #1 
Last friday was the Luzern Marathon and we had a volunteer who ran the marathon while wearing a Moxy. He ran the marathon paced by HR and personal feeling. Looking at the SmO2 and tHb data what are peoples feedback on pacing? I will follow up with his comments and my comments soon.

fullmarathonAVG.jpg  linear.jpg 



AndrewH

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 #2 
Interesting to see a longer steady effort.

I love looking at all these graphs and trying to guess what the heck it means [smile] 

Simple basic guess:

without seeing HR data, the downward trend in tHB would indicate a decrease in SV as the event goes on?

Then the respiratory system compensates well for this, either through increased RF or TV or both?

Without out knowing the athlete or seeing other data. Another wild guess would be that perhaps this runner had more to give. In other words, I would make the guess that this was a conservative pacing strategy and if the same person were so inclined, having completed this event successfully, they could run it again with a bit more vigor. Especially in regards to the last 1/3 to 1/4 of the event. Again, just a wild guess with no data.

Thank you for posting,  
fitbyfred

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 #3 
Andri, hi. Thanks for posting. 

Like Andrew, I'm keen to offer a thought on workout strategy / pacing. 

Warm up: Goal was to set a subjective easy pace for the first 20 min / 3-5 KMs (0-1200) (may have went a little stronger than plan ???) 

Middle: Pace for a steady RPE/HR from 1200 - 12000

Finish: Increasing efforts in steps for the remaining 4-5 KMs (12000 - 13200)

???
Ruud_G

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 #4 
In the first 70 minutes or so his effort was higher. After that he let himself back a bit and paced himself whil the last bit he speeded up again. But on the whole I would say from these data quite nicely paced (in the absolute level as in the trend of smo2 and thb). I am curious to see his HR data (if it slowly increases).
juergfeldmann

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 #5 
Andri , fun  would be to have split time  10 km sections  as well csv  file  for a closer look at them  and overlapping the 10 km sections.
 I will show an   assessment    form a runner  after  ultra distance 65 km  4000 m altitude  difference    immediately after theh run  and than  10 days later.
Andri

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 65
 #6 

I added the HR data for you to look at. The general tendency of SmO2 is increasing, if we understand this very simply it would appear that supply is at least maintained throughout the entire run. Even though tHb drops during the first 45 minutes, after words it remains fairly stable when looking at general trend. I would argue that the pacing of this run favoured supply, but the question is if more performance could have been managed while still maintaining this needed balance. I would suggest that this runner actually increase pace, perhaps for the entire run, but for the second half for sure. Once you see the stabilization of tHb and SmO2 the runner could see if pushing the pace disrupts this balance to find the optimal pace for the race. This are just some thoughts.

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AndrewH

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 #7 
It does seem like there is room for a faster performance.

I would guess that this person most likely slowed down over the course of the run, until the very end, to maintain this balance.

As mentioned, it seems that they most likely had room to speed up instead. 
juergfeldmann

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 #8 
Andri  what  timing company  was there  perhaps we have split times  from the runner  as well. And agin do you have the csv  file  I like to look  at some other ideas.
 . Better performance. The most  stable  performance is  when  we are in a metabolic  balance.   So  somewhat faster  and you  may  run into trouble. You may feel  you  worked   not hard  enough but  balanced  load feels   good. Out  of balance  feels   work.  As  small  change  and  balance disruption  can screw up  the  whole race  with exception you do it the last   few km  .

 One  other   question and a potential  limitation in NIRS is the change in blood volume. Dehydration or  overhydrating.  The question is, whether a  change in Hct may change the absorption   ability of  NIRS  and as  such  the feedback on thB  and SmO2 ?
 If  we have a higher density ( higher  Hct )  we may have less  light coming back  as more  may get absorbed  and we may therefor  have a change  not  due to performance but due to change in the medium blood.  Roger  can  perhaps give a much  more  specific  information  on this  as it is a technical question on NIRS  reactions due to change in density ??
Ruud_G

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 #9 
The slope of the HR data is probably non-significant from 0. Very stable HR and along with Andrew I would suggest that if HR was a guideline his pace must have gone down (that is quite regular over the course of such a larger event). You also see sometimes that in a long event your HR won't to as high anymore (or isn't that responsive anymore) as beginning. The reason of slowing down (pace) is also a hint which might come from a higher SmO2 level (if you say the slope is significantly different from 0) and moving up.
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