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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #1 
In here I like to show you how  fun it is to try to read  MOXY  just from what we see.  We  can go wrong but  it is  interesting  as you   learn more, that you  can start to see pictures  of a person  and their activity  once you see the MOXY trends.  But for sure you  learn to understand  , what  may go on in the muscle  and who may be behind the reactions. In many cases  you sill see you have different options   and that's where you like to have additional information's  from  other BIO markers  like  heart and respiration and  as well  from the performance info  if we c an get  one.
 Here what I like to  show today,.
 It is a   typical   intro into MOXY. A new MOXY users  is getting his MOXY mounts it on himself or   a family member and friend  and up we go to see, what we can see.
 This  here is a  wife  who had to be the  guinea pig  for a  husband.
 I will try to explain  what we  can or could see  and than we  may get the real story out of it and some additional feed backs.
 Here the pic  we will focus  on   for today.

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Jiri Dostal

Development Team Member
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Posts: 51
 #2 
Let me guess what happened here
Ste started with warm up for 2,5-3 min - increased utilization + gentle vasodilatation SmO2 growth + tHb growth
Then she suddenly speeded up for 10-30 sec ( all out exercise) but not till the full exhaustion ( SmO2 would then drop more then in the test). SmO2 sudden drop and reactive hyperemia with vasodilatation.
Then she continued with moderate power for another 17 min ( till the 20min). Small increase in SmO2 indicates the exercises on the level of STEI or FEI.
Then she stopped with the exercise - sudden increase of SmO2.... however why the tHb dropped? Vasoconstriction? Why?
Then she continued with the slow pace ( recovery speed) for 5 min
Then she suddenly increased the speed/cadence bot only for several seconds (SmO2 drop and  tHb sharp growth) and continued with medium exercises with one more try out of the suddenly increased speed/cadence around 33 min of the exercises.

Fairly tale or true?

Juerg....?
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #3 
Jiri. .
 1. Thank you so much for the  feedback here.
 It really does not matter , whether    people   are right or wrong . What we need  at this stage is the abilit5y to discuss  what we  may see   and how we  can all together   improve the ability  to actually
" read" MOXY.
 Matt  , and out of the BOX  thinking  coach  in Victoria   made a very interesting comparisons.
 remember, when we   had the first time  the picture of an ECG  from the heart  and  what we now can read out of all of that.
 Frank Bour  and his dad  have the same idea   with their Physio  flow  and are able to read   from their  graphs  incredible in detailed  information.
 So  with  NIRS  now getting mainstream  we   will see  a lot of changes  and progress as we all  collect information.
 As more  additional feed backs we get form HER  and other bio markers as higher the chance, that we see    information on MOXY trends we never thought it would be possible.
 So as in any   learning idea, as more  trends  and  traces we see  and   try to read  as more information's and  ideas we  finally can get just  out of MOXY info alone.
 To this case.  I do not know  a lot either  and I will try to   give  my  ideas to it  with some  reasoning, which does not mean it is true   not  true  but is is another  way to read it or  the same.
  I  try to explain  what I see and than the origin of the  trace  can jump in  in a few days and tell us  what he did.. So will be back  after  work on here  and try to  same as Jiri did  .
 I will as well  add another  assessment to it  from nKrause  as I  have to  give  some info on that one   and  it is a very interesting assessment.
 So till later.  Juerg
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #4 
here another  nice moxy  info  from a rowing test. I will use this one  teh previous  from Matt and  one  additional assessmetn  from S.M  do show you  what I think we can read  and where  te limitatins are   whne just looking  at SmO2  values.  so stay tuned

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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #5 
Okay loud thinking on the first  example here  from MATT
  Again the pic  below,  so you can see it  once more. Let's  split the  graph in three main sections .
 0- 300 ( 5 min )  than
300 - 1200 + ( 15 min )
than  from 1200 to the end.
1. 0 - 300 Remember we  first only try to look at SmO2   so you will see, that   there is  some info but  later when we add tHb  it may change the ideas we originally had by just looking  at SmO2.  We see a  start at  about 60 SmO2  with a  flat start   followed by a small spike   to 65  back to 60 than followed by a clear drop  down to 40.
The first small spikes are not clear enough to make a  great statement , as it could be anything  from  moving from one leg to the other on a start line to bending or twisting.
 So, no  real statement here,  just that it is  around  60 +- . The clear drop  on the other side indicates a trend of a " delivery " problem in the short term, as the muscle  seems to clearly use   more SmO2  than what may  come in.
So  something happened here   in  form of an increase activity of this muscles, followed by  along relative  flat SmO2  indicating , that what ever triggered the drop ,  is still going on . There is no  further drop in SmO2  in fact  we could argue there is a slightly increase in SmO2  . Indicating  that there is  somehow a balance  reached between intake  and use  with a slightly increase.
The activity could be  relative stable, with  some potential  decrease  due to the increase in SmO2  , but  if this is a   walk  run or bike than we  could argue, that the increase could be  due to a higher  intake of O2  > Deeper breathing ,better  oxygenation in the lungs  so SmO2  could  increase  slightly., as well as  increase of CO ( HR and SV)

But that is a speculation
By 1200  we have a clear increase in SmO2  .followed by some up and downs  , but never  back down as low as at the beginning.
So when we look at the overall, this  SmO2  trend   has a dangerous  part to decide,  what was done.
 It tells the story  from the oxygenation needs ( delivery  and  utilization,) but it  may not tell the full story on the performance.
 Meaning, that if this person started   from zero ( meaning doing nothing  ) And I know  that.   Matt did the  suggested  1 min resting calibration, than the lowest SmO2  may  not  automatically be by the highest or hardest  workload.
 What it can mean is, that   a)the  start speed  after the one minute   calibration was  already   too   high   for an optimal warming up (  increase in blood  volume )  or  it was B0  too slow  to actually activate a decent CO ( cardiac output  HR  and SV) as well as it  was too low to actually create a decent respiratory  responds..
 To answer this  questions you have to look at tHb  as  some indication. tHb   now as we know: the first 60 seconds  where doing  nothing, so tHb  is the circulation   on doing nothing.
 The sudden start of doing something is  represented  by  an inflow  , a compression phase  followed by a  decompression phase,    with a subsequent  balancing into an acceptable  circulation. You can see that during the load  by 600 ( 10 min )  the tHb    is lower but above  resting level. Indicating an increase  of blood circulation  and therefor  most  likely  an increase in HR. But  not  at an extreme  load.

 After 600 there is an additional increase in tHb and an increase in SmO2  indicating a  bigger involvement of cardiac  and respiratory system,  due to a possible increase in speed , but still   most likely at a  low intensity.
 Now by 1200  something changes   dramatically. A  not very common  reaction,  as an increase in SmO2   but a decrease in tHb. Meaning that there was  more pressure  involved  on the  working muscles (  perhaps increase in Speed ) but that would   create  an expectation of  a drop in SmO2  as an increase i load would ask , like at the start  for a use of O2 , often  with a  drop in SmO2   ( short  term delivery problem.
 We do not have this here.
 Now  this creates speculation  rather than  knowledge.
:
 We  would benefit from having HR  and RF  at that  point  to see, whether there was a  sudden   much higher HR and  much  bigger  respiratory involvement,  so that despite a lower  blood flow  the saturation  loading was  much more than the utilization.
 There is one  "manipulative  way we can increase  SmO2   and decrease tHb.
 Respiration.
 I can   create  a  hypocapnic situation, increasing SmO2  due to the shift  of the O2  Diss curve to the left , so easy loading ,  not optimal  utilization. This hypocapnia as well creates a vasoconstriction  and tHb  would drop.
 Nice theory . 
  So  I  am not sure  whether  MATT's wife played  with respiration. This  sudden  increase  , if it would be over respiration would be hard  to hold that long, but you can do it short  and actually create a  situation, where due to the manipulation, faster and too much breathing, HR  and  respiratoy action  increase  and as such  would than,   as a  secondary effect  increase blood  flow ( CO  up )  and  as well  would increase than SmO2  .  Now interesting is , that by 1700 and  by about  2000  we have 2 similar trends.  The opposite  tHb  up and  SmO2  down.
. An activity change  can do that  if the load is not   explosively  fast  but harder , so that the  load  does not create a compression   but needs more O2   for the intensity and we have a short term " delivery " problem.
  Problem with this idea is, that  delivery problem less  O2  ( SmO2  down  and less tHb   less blood flow. So  that is  hard  to understand  and again HR and RF  would give some indication.
 Now    let's push  boundaries.
  Perhaps  MATT  was manipulating his  wife.
 This  2 sections could be  created  , if somebody changes again respiration. This time  breathing hypercapnic , meaning shift of O2  diss curve to the right,  so  easy access and utilization, butt not optimal loading.  A  hypercapnic  situation  would create a   circulatory system vasodilatation   as shown  with a higher tHb.
 Summary:
 It looks  like a  kind of a  workout  with a  slow  start  from rest  followed by  a possible increase in speed , than a kind of a stable  speed  with  2  [wink] possibly three times [wink] interventions  with respiration.
  The peaks , the way there are   can occur  as well with   some activity patterns , but  for me  this would be surprising  ( but   we all  can be wrong )  so I would  speculate  to respiratory intervention  with a stable  load, as stable as it could go.
 Well Jrir,  same  situation as you , let's  see what really happened  to see ,  why we  have  what we   see  and where  we would need  more additional info's like the actual performance  and than careful  observe,  whether we just  bend the theory so it fits the picture or  whether we really can  stand behind the trend  we  see.




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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #6 
Next up  for observation will be  Nkrause's  rowing 5/1/5

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