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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #1 
First , Thanks S.M  for this incredible great  data information.
 It was a  original LBP assessment.
 In short  " normally" we use in an LBP 3 min steps , like every good "student " is doing , as we learned it that way.
 S,.M had the  courage ( thanks so much ) to  try the whole idea with a 5 min step test.
 This will allow us to see much better  trends in different dynamic of physiological systems.
 Remember that MOXY is the  " fastest " way to see  potential reactions in any thing you do.
 So I had  initially just the cvs file  on hand  and the info , that   lactate was taken as well. No idea , whether it was a running or a bike tests at all.
 So here what we got out first. see pic one.  SmO2 trend in this  let's use the word assessment, as we  are not interested in the end product of the test ( performance ) but in the physiological reactions occurring to this end performance on that specific day with a specific  speed or wattage out come and a specific VO2  tested  and a specific lactate tested  at  this day.
 What  moxy will show you is, where at what performance the body had to shift due to feedback loops  from and to the brain  to maintain homeostasis in all different levels of systems.
 So the "weakest " system  may ask for help and    the limitation  may be picked up by compensations from other systems if this is still possible.
 Think though that idea carefully and think rowing team if you try that. Pic 2 / pic 3.
 So now a bad move from my side.
 I like the fact , that it is a  5 min step test and  if you look close enough and  in a few more assessments you will get more experience you see, where the shifts take place.  But I like to show you why I prefer the IPAHD idea of 5/1/5   even though  we make  bigger steps ion some cases.
 See the pic  of a 5/21/5  done in the Italian speaking part of Switzerland with a world class cyclists.
 What you will see is a problem we often  see. We are  not ready to start slow enough but it is needed  and as you make no warm up for this assessment the warm up is a part of the assessment so start slow. In this case they started  one step too fast to have a great info on the full physiological reactions.
 So 2 steps are always the same load  interrupted  with a 1 min complete break.
 I will show later why  we like this so much . Here just a hint.
 If you take VO2   and MOXY , than in the break you will see  SmO2  going up ( most often ) and VO2  dropping. This is because during rest your muscles  do not use O2    but  cardiac and respiratory system do not stop as the motion stops so you have an incredible new way to see how much O2  your muscles use  and how much your cardiac and respiratory system. So later when you re- assess you can see, what is getting more efficient  cardiac, respiratory  or muscular coordination or  utilization systems.
 This way we know over time what workouts create what kind of reactions and why performance is up.  We will see this in the coming month as the MOXY community will explode.

 So here the pic ( thanks to Andrea and Cesare  from Ticino ) Switzerland. Look at the circle in the second  same load of 5 min . Always by about three minutes  form that step and later you see a drop in SmO2  . So we have   at the new load a utilization problem . ( will explain later  on this case what  it was, who caused a utilization problem )  but than after 3 min  he changed into a delivery problem.
 If we would have had just 5 min steps we  could have speculated  perhaps after the fact. That's what we do with SM ,  great 5 min test in one small section, where I believe, can't proof it  yet, That  if repeated the same step SmO2  would have clearly plateaued   and even increase a bit.
 Let 's see whether you find that spot  as well.
 Next up " zoning " for the SmO2  values only .
 Than followed by a closer look to justify the " zoning " an than a closer look at  the tHb ) Blood volume trend during this  test.
 Than a simple question.
 What is easier  fix a MOXY on your leg and go o  add  may more tools for a short initial  assessment  with people.
  Your call.
Juerg 
Your task make the " zoning " what ever words you use just make lines, where you think based on SmO2 information you would see a change in dynaminc ( trend. )

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: sm_Smo2_no_z.jpg, Views: 23, Size: 56.17 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: rowers.jpg, Views: 24, Size: 50.91 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: rowing_race.jpg, Views: 25, Size: 71.91 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: yama_ipahd_3.JPG, Views: 22, Size: 44.70 KB 

Marcel

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 54
 #2 
My first day playing with the new Moxy. Some very interesting results. Below attached is a running IPAHD with HR and zoomed in just SmO2, 5/1/5. Arguably I could have included another step between step 4 and 5 as there was a big jump in heart rate from 11km/h to 15km/h. At * was a slight interruption as I knocked the emergency stop and fumbled around as I restarted the treadmill. Moxy was strapped to front of thigh around the Vastus intermedius.

Thoughts?

13OCT16IPAHD.jpg Sm02.jpg 

The Last picture is from a short gym session done just after the IPAHD just too see what happens. Moxy was again on Vastus Intermedius area. I was already warmed up. At start I did my normal squat jumps with my normal rest, Not much time to recover. Where it says follow moxy I still did my normal 10 jumps but allowed SmO2 to recover to a baseline. Then I did two longer jumps of 20 and also allowed recovery time according to SmO2. Interestingly last night I had it on my fore arm bouldering and was getting readings of 1% Smo2!

Thoughts? 

Gym.jpg 

 
Attached Files
csv 13Oct16IPAHD.csv (49.92 KB, 14 views)

Andri

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 65
 #3 
I am going to quickly comment on the squat jump section. I am sure Juerg will comment as well, and give more feedback on the IPAHD. 

The question with strength, or interval sessions when using the MOXY is how do we look at recovery between sets. Normally we used subjective measures of "feeling", but now with the MOXY we have a huge potential to use a physiological measure. So, again the questions, how do we look at recover? We have thought of 3 different potential recovery schemes. 1 full recovery, or back to baseline rest value and go again; 2 incomplete recovery, or basically start the next set before smo2 recovers back to baseline value (as you did in the first part); 3 attempt to create a higher smo2 value after the set, with increased blood flow (the famous pump feeling), we call this post load oxygen intensity PLOI. Many people may label this super-compensation as smo2 exceed prior baseline value, but super-compensation implies a positive effect, and we are not sure if this is so. Anyway, those are our three options for recovery at the moment. Now how to determine what we want....questions questions. I would say we get 300 participants, make 3 groups of 100 and try each recovery protocol and see the results....right. Well apart from that we can try to use experience and theory to think what could be used for what. In the forum, under strength training, I posted a paper on the effect of muscle oxygenation on growth hormone release. Considering this info, if the goal is hypertrophy we want to establish muscular hypoxia, in other words perhaps recovery protocol 1, or try to keep an exercise going longer to keep smo2 low. However, if we are going for maximal strength, perhaps more of a functional adaption, we would look for protocol 2 or 3 for recovery, to ensure we can get a max effort. Some thoughts, and I look forward to the feedback. Nice work!!
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #4 
Okay.
 here  first  back to S.M coaches nice test and where we  would set the  "intensities"
  I  like to show you some of our ongoing discussions.
 The reason why we have this discussion is exactly the  information we now can see.
 Before when we uses a calculator we had no discussions what's however. How could we  80 %  from a maximal number is  without any question a very clear answer. Whether it is a clear physiological intensity is another question, but very few ever ask this , when handing out a training program.
 So here my take on the S.M. Test  and we have a small difference, for where  S.M  and other people would have made the " zoning" not  a lot  but an interesting point. See my  discussion on that one  in the following PP.

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #5 
Marcel, great  feedback .
 There is not a lot  for the moment I would add to Andri's  comment.
 What is  fun is, that we now have some physiological feed backs  rather than physical  ideas.
 5  fingers equals 5 sets,  1 min because it is a great number, 15 repetitions    because it is easy to count.
 That's where we are all stuck  and than   we see different progress  with a group of athletes doing all the same workout.
 Now we  can use a physiological feedback and we see this three different reactions  during a load  and after a load  and some combination.
 To keep it simple to start out.
 a) load
1. We can load  to the  minimal SmO2  we can achieve  and than quit the load.
2. We can  load by reaching this minimal level and try  whether we can maintain it  for a while  ( 3.
3. We can try to  reach the minimal level  we can create and hold but are not able to  stay  down on that low level despite full effort .

b)Recovery
1. We can recover back to start  level.
2 we can recover   only  a shorty moment to avoid the start level SmO2  so less  O2  before we start the next load.
 3. We can recover by  see, whether we can " overshoot " the start level.
 Now here we  can have  a sub option.
 3.1  wait till we hit the highest  SmO2  overshoot.
3.2 Wait till the overshoot is  gone and we are back to start level.
 Now the questions and we look for lot's of people to help.
  What causes what kind of an training adaptation. To find this out we have established different assessment protocols like the infamous IPAHD and IPAHR and not the  DOT deoxygenation test.
 This way we can easy re- asses and see, what changes in actual performance , but as well  in oxygenation reactions.
 The fun part is, that we can have 4  or 8 athletes working out at the same time and can see, very different deoxygenation and reoxygenation pattern. Than we can for the moment  see, what differentiate them from each other and  start speculating or as Andri suggest we start collecting now  many data's to have a trend information.
 What I am doing fro the moment is to see, whether I can manipulate  with different ideas, the outcome of the oxygenation trend  and  there are s some very intriguing directions  we see, but not enough yet to come out  and claim that this may be the way to go.
 We need  not  a case study of  5 - 10 as we often do, but a few hundred. The first  person  who helps me to collect for the moment  data's and we have 170 test now to  go through is Brian Kozak from the next level hockey coaching  and his different coaches and teams who start  thinking out side the BOX.
 When you think that million dollar  NHL teams still pay for a bike VO2 max test to get answers  for an ice hockey specific information you wonder where and what progress we made since the late 1920. 

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