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Roger

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Posts: 266
 #1 
How would you apply Moxy Monitor to a HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) workout?
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 #2 
Ideas outside the box...first find my resting SmO2 % and then warm-up to find my SmO2 'Peak plateau' then HIIT (line sprints on the ice) until I find the Smo2 'Base plateau'...now, I have interesting numbers and can work on various training ideas that are related to my SmO2 (physiological biomarker based on O2) and not time or a number based on how many fingers I have (10). The 'Fun' really begins as we now test and retest to see what changes...or not...all based on personal physiology
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #3 
Interesting question and an interesting first replay. Some of the wording sound very familiar and the message may come out of a great coaches corner I in fact just may know  for his  interest in out of the box thinking..

 Here some thoughts before we may engange in a longer information discussion here.
1. Problem in the current classical trainig school is:
 How to you actually assess the workout ?load  in an intervall session ( high or low really does not matter .) what are current used values to quantify an intervall workout.
? Time ?
? Distance ?
? 5 repetitions or 10  ?
same for the planning or the recovery in between loads >
 Problmes :
 HR ? big problme for any intervall below 2 possibl;y even 4 - 5 min.
Lactate ? can't be used at all for  intervall quantification.
 Distance is nothing more thna an orgaisation of  an intervall   without physiological  backup.
 Same is true for Time and  randomly decided repetitions.
Same for speed and watt.
 The only current immediate feedback for physiologically individually guided  workouts  for strenght an intervall is  NIRS.
 Now where does NIRS has the problem.
 a)Not well know yet.
b)Poorly utilized in practial applications
MOXY an incredible new tool but unfortunately this great idea gets pulled in an outdated but completely fixed myth , that lactate and in specific lactate threshold or  anaerobic threshold is the key for intensity control.
 Here we have a great tool which in itself leads to a very new and clear  ability to define the different ATP producing intensities without the need to try to hang on  to an old and crumbling concept of lactate treshold. We finally have a tooll , where we have a direct feedback what is going on  in different levels  in the working muscle. BUT than we have the  strange urge in research , including the one on this website to combine an indreict blood value ( lactate ) which  today clearly is NOT anymore the ugly and bad one. but rather an incredible  intersting  substance , which is used as energy , transporter , messanger,has a lag time  from the production place to the measureing place of 1 - 10 min and more. and much more . ( Read  Gladden and  the paradigme of lactate in the next millenium)
 In short : Lactate  and its  current classical use is crumbling and  lactate is used now for many different bio feedbacks idea BUT training intensity. Finally after more than a quarter centruy Ph.D people with some names have the currage to oppose its  useless  ideas.
Question: Why would a great equipment like MOXY or NIRS  in general try to use a sueless concept of Lactate threshold to define its use and take LT or AT as the missguided " golden Standard" when in fact it creates in its own field a new Golden standard by using the information in a new and exited way.
 I use NIRS since many years on patients ( post cardiac rehab ) COPD, chronic fatigue , muscle rehab after injury  and in sport assessments very succesful.
 The simple key is to combine cardiac information, respiratory information, muscle recruitment information and  NIRS to define phsyiological resting phases and loading phases.
You can create  a macro or micro cycle perfectly  to define the training intensities defined by Connett et all on the energy sources and abilities to maintain and control ATP demand and production. Here a very short inside view from an NIRS zoning example I presented in europe during a coaching seminar. first

a macro cycle follwed by an example of a micro cycle based on Cannon and Selye's basic ideas : G.A.S
 .Have fun
Att  some of the  have some backup and statements on lactate. Working over 30 years in that field we finally  are not looked upon anymore as f.......???now open and fun
Let's hope for Ideas like MOXY does it not take again a quarter of a century for changes. good luck to you guys


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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #4 
Time to be back here short as I enjoy reading some of the  informatin .
 Here is an interesting one :
 " Several studies have suggested that maximal heart rate actually decreases when an athlete carries out high volumes of endurance training. In other words, the capacity of the sympathetic nervous system is reduced. One example is a study by Seiler, where junior cross country skiers were tested before and after completing 10 days of high volume training. On average, VO2 max readings decreased slightly and maximal heart rate dropped by four beats a minute during the VO2 max test. After spending a few days recovering, their VO2 max and heart rate returned to normal."

 An interesting question here would rather be.
 :
 What does a training idea like this really stimulates ?  a few thing to think about.
 1. Plasma volume expansion ???
2. Increase in EDV due to 1.
3. Decrease in HR due to 2.
4. Decrease in MVO2 due to 2.
Decrease in Max VO2  due to  4.

Will bring us back to the  rather interesting question.
 Functional reaction due to 10 days of high  Volume training which creates all the above and will  disappear after a  short amount of time, namely as soon the plasma volume is back to the level from 10 days before.  In 10 days you never ever will see a structural meaning full change but always a functional survival reaction.

 Following that part we have an interesting   section of HIIT and I would  move the question:
 When this study over 12 units would have been extended over a year , what would the result be.
 Here a picture of a 1 year specific stroke volume training. You can see the CO ( cardiac out put is the same but  SV up and HR down. Have fun see pic

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nlsp

Development Team Member
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Posts: 13
 #5 
As a Fitness Trainer (Hockey Specific) with over 20 years experience, I have had the privilege of working with athletes from Bantam (age 13/14) to Professionals. Anyone who has spent time in this field have seen the increases in their athletes performance due to proper strength training, nutrition, rest & recovery, etc. Our profession is very satisfying, especially when the athlete reaches his goal, say...the NHL. When this first happened to me as a trainer, a bunch of questions arose, 'could I have pushed him harder'...'did I push him too hard'...'was his recovery too short/too long (between hard workouts)'. What I knew from school and what I was constantly learning from other top trainers was not providing the answers. For example, lets use High Intensity Interval Training-why 10 sets of 100 metres? Why rest in-between for 2 min. or as some NHL Off-Season Training Programs suggest to rest till heart rate drops below 120 bpm? These are very interesting ideas and I have committed the last decade to finding out WHY? What I have found (with the help of some amazing open-minded thinkers who love to find answers and more interesting questions), is that we need to look at the physiology of the athlete. Using the example of HIIT, how long can the athlete skate (game-like protocol) and how long to recover? With the MOXY we can see 'live numbers' of how long the athlete can last and how long to recover based on individual athlete's SmO2. If an athlete's SmO2 is 80% at the start of the skating protocol and desaturates to 40% in 25 seconds and then recovers to 80% in 120 seconds - we now have a starting point. How many times can the athlete repeat this ? Does he not recover when the 80% is not met or when he can no longer desaturate to 40% or both? More questions, but questions that a Sport Specific Trainer can now set up a training program and see if the program IMPROVES THE ATHLETES PERFORMANCE. That is the question(s) that sits in the back of my mind...that is the reason I sought out like-minded individual who want to know WHY and then design programs that IMPROVE THE ATHLETES PERFORMANCE and that is one important reason that we use MOXY. 
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #6 
Okay here a simple explanation to the great input by the above contributor.
 See whether it makes sense, when we talk about taring and assessments.

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