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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #1 
There is a very great  new discussion going n  n this interesting forum.
 Get  some time  and peak in.
 There are some great comments as well and I like to take one here, as  there are some great  hints towards  Artinis  and Portamon. A great  equipment we used prior to MOXY coming on the market. Here  some test  from the early days  of 2  world class bikers in comparison and  showing the  limitations  of both  and on a very different level despite  in the UCI  standing  both  where close in that years standings.
yama gk comp 2.JPG


yama gk comp 3.JPG 

So  we would love to have   experts  on our forum  showing   their ideas.
 we are NOT experts.

Red bull expert advice.jpg 

So    please be welcome  to join us .

Well. Apparently experts fear to tread here.

 

That makes a difference from claiming to have pioneered it 10 years ago, I suppose.

Lets collect data and learn from it whilst others talk about it.

 

Mark

Seems  to   me    not a  really fair play  in a  discussion  where there is no  competition  as   we  all can learn  and exchange  with each other. .We have some great discussion with people like John Tarkington in Boulder   who took the time  to sit in  in one of  our Boulder  seminars  a while back. ( Thanks you  John )
 So please  again be welcome  and join  us on a forum  not specific for  cycling but  very general  for    activities  and  rehabilitation  as well.

And here  some great  data  from a  set of  over 500 data collections done  by Jiri  and Martin in Prag.

Jiri  icehockey.jpg 
.


liversedge

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 15
 #2 
Hi Juerg,

The comment about "experts fear to tread" was a response to a comment made by Coggan on his facebook page. He often posts petulent or derogatory outbursts there as some kind of therapy or something.

I am watching here all the time and sharing updates and data with Roger and Jon.

Initially the coding effort has been focused on getting the data in and viewable in GoldenCheetah but next it will be about extracting insight and measures of value.

You are welcome to post on our forums and I am open to suggestions here about what we could add to the software [smile]

Cheers

Mark
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #3 
Mark , woww thanks  for the nice feedback  .
 I like as an exception to post  my response to you open  and with name as well but I hope we do not let this  fun forum  come down  to any  kind  of negative  ideas  to defend  anything as we all  are here to exchange ideas  even though they may sometimes  not fit our  own line.

 "Thanks for the nice feedback and don't worry, working since 40 years in the field of research and PH. D people , I do not loose my smile anymore.
Nice would be if we can stand to what we write.
Now here a problem.
I am an absolute idiot when it comes to forum and other ideas so I tried to get in your great forum with the incredible success , that I was not able to get in. Nothing new for me so even here I keep my smile.
So thanks again and yes if I get any kind of decent ideas on what would be fun to see will be forwarded to you.
Here a question. In your last graph you showed you have different colours and it looks to me you had HHb and O2Hb on the graph together with SmO2 as well as tHb.
( besides you may have lost a few times the contact see the extreme drops of the MOXY values.
. If we can get the same colours we have on other software's for MOXY that would-be great red for O2Hb blue for HHb green for SmO2 and brown for tHb.
The scale for tHb is not optimal and Roger may be able to change this numbers to something different or at least the scale can change as the change in value is not reflecting nicely the change in blood flow.
. The trends in O2HB is often similar to te trend in SmO2 as tHb andO2Hb are giving us the SmO2. After a while you can see in your brain the O2Hb and HHb once you see tHb and SmO2.
So by getting rid of the O2Hb and HHb you may gain more overview in the graph.
Remember that SmO2 and tHb often help each other to understand the full information.
Thanks again for the nice mail . There are some options I will come back later for interval workouts or even classical Wingate options a cycling software could use as we did this idea with Portamon many years back with a rollover option , as soon I get a breather I can sent you some options for that idea.
Reason. It will show nicely , why we loose power and why there may be some other ideas to consider than the idea of anaerobic metabolic situation when looking at SmO2 trends.
Cheers from avery cold north of Canada
Juerg
 
liversedge

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 15
 #4 
Hi,

The charting is user configurable, so colors are set in preferences, but the defaults are red, blue, green and brown the same as with your scheme.

We show data zoomed in x or y, or stacked and you can configure which series to plot.

Here are some examples:

(1) stacked by time with power, hr and 4 moxy series:
stacked.png 
(2) same ride, but data is zoomed and smoothed and shown in series:
zoom etc.png
 

I'm interested to know about any thoughts on recovery rates for tHb and O2HB ... ?

Cheers,
Mark

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #5 
woww that looks  as we get some great options  soon out of this great work  for cycling.
 Here what would help me  to get some feedback to this discussion.
 1.thoughts on recovery rates for tHb and O2HB ...

Why do you take O2Hb  and not SmO2. SmO2    would be over time a  nice  idea  as we have some absolute  % numbers  and we will show you as we go along , that when testing the same  person over an over gain you will have a  nice feedback on recovery  and readiness for the next workouts. even if you work  with a spin scan independent pedal wattage  help  and  left right leg  MOXY you  can do some  incredible technical workouts  to  shift SmO2  and tHb  from one leg to the other  or  better     explained you can learn to  re  and de-saturate  with technical skills. In cycling not  as   clear  but for example in speed skating short track  and in other sports  very interesting to look at . ( Skiing for example  as well.
   2.  Can you  sent me form the last graph the  moxy data in a csv  file if possible  so I  can use this    picture  to show  you in depth    what we can use MOXY  for in comparison to the HR  and wattage  information we have.
 Again I need help  I need the data  so that I can move them into an excel sheet  so need HR   wattage SmO2  and tHb  ready to transfer  and this will be a very great opportunity to show you what physiologically happened in this simple print out.
  Roger  may be  able to help as he know how annoying it is  to work with me when it comes  to  computer stuff.
 I still  work  with my friend  on the old venison of  face book  for interaction.

untitled.psmoke signals.png 

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