Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #1 
I like on here to start a full practical example step  by step, as if you would start your own MOXY or "IPAHD"  assessment center or just for you.
 I will use an assessment done in Europe from our TICINO friends on  an Norwegian friend who contributes on here and is very involved in the idea to critically look at the ideas we try to discuss and  we try to improve.
 In other words a very " international"  information  for all out of the BOX thinking people but as well hopefully for critical brains using " classical" great ideas to come up with weaknesses they can see in our ideas so we can approve upon.
 Any thing is allowed, as long we are able to actually show real practical examples.
What I like to show is real numbers what we see even if the contradict what we believe.
 What I hate is, when I have discussion, where somebody sent  a stack of articles from great studies   to proof something but never ever used what we do and than it becomes a " religious " war  rather a constructive discussion.
 Small example. Great discussion over a few weeks with great Brain. We ended up on a discussion on respiration  and the  statement that there are some "fundamental"  ( sounds already religious ) principles.
 Than a statement, that  he never used nor  know how a Spiro Tiger works.
  but than a statement  that moving 150 / 200 liter and more VE is  basically impossible.
 All regular Spiro Tiger user know, that 150 L VE is not that much of a problem in a decent train Spiro Athlete, in fact 200 is fun and 250 L is possible  and more.
 Brian has local ice hockey kids starting with  small bags like 3   perhaps 4 liter with a clamp and easy  in 2 - 3 week can blow a three liter bag with 50 and 60 RF. Meaning they have a 3 liter bag plus proper use  so their TV is 3.6 - 3.9 liter x 50  so how much VE  and if they use 60 RF than it is easy above.

So in the following  discussion we  will use actual numbers and information's and I like to start with a picture as a follow up to one I showed before.
 It is  a picture you will get when doing and "IPAHD" and you use a MOXY   and or a Portamon.
 Here what you would get if you use NIRS plus  a treadmill as this was a running test.
  So on a MOXY you will have  the same information as we see here. The difference is the  actual values, that's why I took the scale off. So we just look here the trends. In MOXY we will use as well actual numbers for SmO2.

Attention:
 If tHb  ( yellow always ) is stable ( So  stable blood supply or volume in the tested area, than HbDiff ( Purple ) is the same trend like SmO2  from MOXY ( just no numbers.
 If the tHb changes, than  the Hb Diff is different  than the SmO2.
 The TSI % has a very different property . It can be  the same as SmO2  but in  some cases it can be very very different.
 The reason is discuss to long extend on this forum.
  So yellow is tHb  and purple is O2Hb on here and it will have the same trend as SmO2  from MOXY. If we use SmO2 color is green) if we use Hb diff  it is purple  in both machines. Your task. Look at trend  and explain yourself what you see.
 Than make some  points:
 Where  is tHb changing  if it is changing  . What  could the change mean.
 Same for Hb Diff.
 Than the next questions is, what  may cause  this changes?
 Nice would be  when we get some info on here. Nothing is wrong as any  observation has a reason for a conclusion.

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: nh_3.JPG, Views: 14, Size: 31.08 KB 

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #2 
Okay here a first step and hopefully lot's of critical discussion.

 
Attached Files
pptx MOXY_case_norway.pptx (123.60 KB, 27 views)

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #3 
Part 2.
 We still will hang around the  NIRS information in our assessment  on the first 2  double steps.
 Remember. 4/1/4  so 4 min same load one min rest 4 min same load than 1 min rest and now new load 4 min long 1 min rest and same load again.
 We look at tHb and  SmO2 ( Hb diff trend.
 Summary. Based n the Hb diff trend  we had the surprise result, that even in that slow pace  there was already a " balance " between  O2 intake and  O2  needs ( use ). Therefor after  an initial load, which always creates lactate  or H + we  speculated, that  with a balanced SmO2 or Hb diff we may see already some lactate  trends  in the direction of increase.
 So the follow up looks at the data's we go  from taking lactate  at this stages , as ell as some reaction to this metabolic information. I added another assessment from the same group showing you a lactate trend compared with Hb Diff  just for fun  so you can see how  over time  you will be able to use MOXY info to know  lactate trend.

 
Attached Files
pptx MOXY_case_norway.pptx (428.46 KB, 19 views)

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #4 
Part 3.
 Let's go back to the start. Let's look again just what we have.
 tHb ( trend of blood volume) delivery options.
Questions to this you ask yourself.
 a. What can or could cause a drop in blood volume as we increase intensity ?
SmO2  or Hb Diff. as a sign of oxy or deoxygenation.
b) what  creates a better situation for or  a worse situation  for or against  using  oxygen ?
 With this in mind  start to use the MOXY 9 NIRS ) information.
 Here some different  picture you may see when using an IPAHD protocol.
See pics below
 By watching  at this pictures, you can make some "speculations" on the above questions.
 Than you ask yourself, what additional information would either support ( confirm) the  ideas or what more would I have to know.
 By connecting the different physiological system, and their individual performance into  the  full picture you will find very often the reason, why SmO2 reacted the way it does and who actually created this reaction in the first place. After  some  test you will get a very nice feel and understanding for it and now you suddenly understand, why one single parameter , whether it is wattage, HR, lactate or even SmO2 alone have a very limited  value but in combination we suddenly have  much more  information , than we ever had from our classical VO2 max tests. Here just again , as I am always surprised, that we use the idea, that VO2 predicts the performance.
 Why do we never turn the  equation around and argue, that the performance  will predict the VO2. . Look at this great summary in the last pic.
 It is hard to believe, that we  can take a VO2  value and use a % formula , when we can see, what all systems  and factors will influence this end result. When we use newer ideas like PF and MOXY ( NIRS ) and respiratory information we have a lot more  information , why and how O2 is delivered and used. And what is much more important is, what training  and recovery plans will change some of this factores and in what direction ?

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: ALLA_TSI_%.jpg, Views: 17, Size: 40.87 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: ball_ipahd.JPG, Views: 17, Size: 78.34 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: nh_3.JPG, Views: 18, Size: 31.08 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: roach_IPAD.JPG, Views: 21, Size: 78.43 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: VO2_graphic_and_adaptation_with_traning.jpg, Views: 19, Size: 117.56 KB 

Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.

HTML hit counter - Quick-counter.net