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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #1 
I like to give here once in a while some feed backs  from friend  all around the world  now using MOXY.
 Nice increase in users in China to eastern europe to South Africa to baseline Europe.
 Here  a  first start to show you some very intense ongoing discussion.
 This is a small insight view from a region, where the actual cycling association really is working towards  up to date ideas on combining  classical  information's  from wattage to FTP to respiratory information's  from classical VO2  equipment and  will pair this  with  MOXY ( NIRS) .
 Have  fun  and read between the lines.

Congratulation great job.

Here my few cents.

As we all know , many old classical ideas will be reviewed and most likely upgraded to what we know this days. Starting form the old dream of a VO2 max to the interesting idea how lactate changed from the bad to the ugly to the good. The therefore critical question why we still do lactate tolerance training to train to accept the Good ?

to the very interesting discussion on the " anaerobic ' aerobic section in muscle contraction, where we see in wingate test a much deeper use of O2 compared top most of the VO2 classical test due to the fact that newer studies show , that O2 is involved very fast ( ms ) in the production and maintenance help of ATP.

We therefore created a ongoing development of three ideas of assessing and they all work very easy and nicely in cycling ( most likely much easier than in an many other sports.

The TRIP with MOXY see att 1 and 2

The TIP for our assessment is the 5/1/5 or 4/1/4 ( latter is easier if you have problem with concentration but if you have certain wattage trainers like compu trainer you actually could program a TIP by using peripedal and you even have some beep when it changes you can simply overrule the FTP idea and use this as the wattage you like to have by telling FTP = 100 and than use % of that for your step and all runs easy and fast.

In a TIP we do not believe you get any information for a High intensity workout so for this and track people and for interval planning you do a RIP. On the bike easy as well. You need a wattage trainer who shows you real wattage people push . So you have the wattage profile and see the performance loss as well the recovery of MOXY.

you go 30 seconds all out see what wattage level or at least distance you cover 2/12 min rest and you repeat this 5 x.

Than you overlap the sessions easy to do and you have a direct feedback on the performance loss , recovery time and how many sets he may be able to do in a workout.

last if you are interested in the quality for muscle contraction you can do an off bike SIP or you use the the RIP and you will see some of the quality for the muscle contraction/ limitation by looking at the tHb reactions from compression to potential venous occlusion and very rarely but possible arterial occlusion. Than you immediately have the guide for workouts for this athlete.

Last but not least you could make a mitochondria density test.

For that you need a occlusions strap.

and you need to do it off the bike.

15 sec occlusion followed by free flow and you can see the recovery speed of SmO2 as an indication of mitochondria density ( controversial but fun to start to collect data's.

The small problem is that during the 15 sec. occlusion you have to make an artificial muscle stimulation so you have O2 use immediately in a very high level. The idea behind is, that you not only deplete O2 in the blood vessels but as well in the myoglobin stored and the overshoot and speed of recovery will give an indication of mitochondria density.

A " normal recovery rate of SmO2 to start level or to an overshoot has to be 15 +- seconds . A slow one in untrained people will be at least double as long. As faster as more mitochondria density they believe we have.

So based on this assessments you will find often very clear limiter and compensator and than you can start making individual training planning to work on the weak link. Hope this gives you some ideas.

Cheers Juerg

 

Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #2 
Here  from Australia. Nice to see  the adjustment finally to step length  and no warm up but super  easy start load. As well the software they use at it is now compatible with MOXy feed backs.
 

At one end of the building, Fenner was busy doing group power output tests with three riders at a time on Wahoo Kickr trainers run through PerfPRO Studio software.
Despite the high summer heat, the riders were being put through the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) Step Test. This has riders start at 100W output and progressively increase output by 50W every five minutes until failure. The test finishes at 500W, with every minute that follows ramping up a further 10W – so for example, two minutes past the 500W zone will be 520W. 

The easiest  software  for MOXY users  for any sport  from strenght workouts  to  intervals loads  to cross country skiing on an erg  to anything indoors  and or with a radius  of  100 +- meter  is the peripedal software.  you can easy get rid  of  the  bike specific  feed backs  and use  just  SmO2  tHb  and HR  and you have  a  great  fast adjustment  for tHB  to see what is  needed  to be  seen..

 Here a fun   peripedal  case study  from Finland   walking up and downstairs in an office building. What is up and what  or where is he going downstairs  and what happens ?
eric stairsa.jpg   You can get rid  of all the  power interval cadence and speed  icons  and you have only  big SmO2 tHb  and hR and the name of the athlete. Up to 8 people on a big screen    during workouts in s strenght room  for example.

Jiri Dostal

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 51
 #3 
Hi Juerg, do you have any example of the Mitochondria occlusion test? Thinking about it as a good screening test for kids. Besides of doing it before every 5-1-5. 

To the stairs test - Up is blue line, and down is yellow line :-)
up - tHb - compression+ venous occlusion, SmO2 - quick untilization and then long O2 independent energy supply
down -  tHb - arterial compression, but still good delivery and limited need on O2

Comments? Thanks.

Jiri
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #4 
Here from a really great study >
   trond heim.jpg 

VEGARD RASDAL


TSI is a valuable variable to present in an effort to understand human skeletal muscle physiology as it reflects the balance between two important mechanisms in the vessels; the oxygen supply and oxygen consumption. Furthermore, it provides a more quantified measurement of saturation, and thus is easier to interpret and compare across studies. However, when leaving out the raw signals one loses important information about e.g. blood volume changes, which can be of great assistance in interpreting the TSI results.

This is  a great to see  as many regular reader remember, that when we started  with Portamon NIRS we argued  that the TSI  or in MOXY the SmO2  %  alone has a limitation in  interpretation.
 This shows  you  why we    like to discuss changes in tHb  as a part of  the  raw data  and we  have all this great discussion on  occlusion trends  and  more.
 tHB really is nothing more than the  HHb  and O2Hb   added together  and as such is  often needed  to have a better understanding. Look at  Jiri's comment on Eric's  stair  walking.
 For    the most regular readers  you can see, that the  amount of NIRS studies  will explode  and with MOXY now the amount  of multiple  NIRS  uses  as we  all can afford it now.
 8 MOXy's  for basically one portamon or even more  will dramatically change the   information and we  will be not alone  anymore.
 Get a Peripedal 8 user  soft ware  and you are in the game  and all including HR is  synchronized  for interpretations.


Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #5 
Thanks  for the 3  mails I got already on this great study.
 There is an interesting section.
 The section is the  information on quantification of O2 use with NIRS , so basically what many look for , for a  so called metric. There are different options done in this directions  with occlusion  for example, but what we do here is  very simple  an application of a bio marker during a workout. It is less the question during a workout on how much O2  you use  as much more , whether you are able,   based on the feedback to sustain the current performance or whether you have to adjust. Or to use  SmO2  and tHb trend toget a feedback on duration of a load , reasoning why I have to  terminate this load  and a   feedback on when  I can try to  reload  again.
 So below a short  section, where you see, where we are  different in our  approach.

"In other words, although we find a steady-state condition in oxygenation, it is not to say that the mVO2""

remains the same throughout the test. In fact, based on previous literature on altered muscle coordination during prolonged cycling (Dorel et al., 2009, Sanderson and Black, 2003) there is evidence to suggest otherwise.


I can tell you , that the VO2  tested  with a VO2  equipment does not stay the same at all. NIRS  shows you the trend in the muscle and  many reader can understand by now, that depending on Limiter  and or compensator we will shift the O2   demand  but as well O2  utilization  around as we   go along with a workout.
 A change in the  ability of the respiratory system to   get rid  of CO2  for the moment  will change again the O2  disscurve  and as such  we will have a change in  O2  use locally   but  the change   is different when testing at the mouth.
 Or  a limitation in  strength which can create a    compression  and  a  change towards  an occlusion will change again the end  result in VO2  . We may use less  O2  in the leg  where we  have the MOXY  but we may use more O2  in the respiration. We still when  using this  short times  of a  workout ,may be able to do it but we may see a   change in the SmO2  values in different direction than we may see in the VO2  at the mask. One is direct feedback the other is an indirect feedback with  time lag.
 If you have a VO2  equipment  and you have  a MOXY you very easy and fast can  look at that by doing some  respiratory manipulations in a  MAX Lass   performance speed.
 
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #6 
Here a short answer  to two mails  I received and it may be interesting  for  many regular readers.
It is a perfect  feedback in this study  to show  that calculated  " zoning  ideas' really are only convenient  to say the least but ,   where is the actual physiological value ?  
Here  one  short section, but we will highlight  some more  from this  great study.

"Consequently, the intensity was set to 75% MAP based on evaluation of literature with similar protocols and pilot studies in our lab. This relative work rate, without consideration for individual lactate thresholds, led to different finishing times ranging between 15 and 30 minutes.
However, those subjects who completed 30-min rated their perceived exhaustion at the end of exercise no lower than those who completed merely 15 minutes, suggesting an equal level of overall fatigue." 

So basically a  calculated  " Zoning really  is not working   for the people at all.So nothing new  really but we  simply  close the eyes  on that one  as it is very inconvenient to think , that all the studies  done on a %  of VO2   or  %  of FTP  or %  of  Max HR  would have to be reviesited  really ???

  So they tried  to say : if  we  would have used a LT  idea  it would  have  " perhaps " worked.
  Now here the next interesting part :

"

While none of the baseline characteristics were significant different between the two groups, and the only significant differences in whole-body measurements were found in [La-] and VE responses, we found peripheral differences that may have contributed to their performance."

Now look exactly what was  very different.  Lactate  and VE . Remember  what we argued   VE  or a limiter or a compensator  if in connection with respiration will do .  Remember H +  CO2  accumulation,   followed  by a shift in what   creating what  an dhow can we  buffer H +  when we  have   the respiration as a   compensator    and what happens than with  lactate   " accumulation " >

 Next up will be to show  some of their  speculation  and why we think we  have   some different ideas  , because we try to avoid forcing  NIRS into a  most likely  reassessed  idea of VO2  max   LT  and many of the classical ideas. ?

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