Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
xcskier

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 46
 #1 
Has anybody investigated effects of
Frolov breathing device on SmO2?
juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #2 
Yes indeed  and I have a few  Frolov  equipment  here in my office. A  fascinating topic  with the CO2  ideas  and  a   nice little  device. There are some  other  Russian devices  out there if  you google  with some  different interesting ideas. We  did a  few years back  some internal  studies  to see what of the different respiratory devices  from  inspiration Resistance to expiration resistance  to CO2  ideas  to hyper and hypocapnia  ideas can be used  to manipulate  certain physiological reaction and we  had  some seminars  on this ideas in Europe  and we discussed that in  depth on the fact  forum  at the  time. The bigger  idea  than SmO2  reaction was  the overall reaction we may see on cardiac   respiratory and muscle  reactions  when looking at the different options. Lots  of great studies  out there  but often not in combination with all the  physiological system observation so often speculation rather than data collection and see e what happens. But yes  a  fun  tool  to  look at it  for specific  rehabilitation purposes.
I use  the Frolov  tool once in a while in my   clinic. The   fascinating part is  that  Frolov  took the idea froma guy  called  Friedrich Miescher  who   died in Davos  Switzerland and a was a noble price   winner on the issue  of CO2   and its  benefit. The CO2  spreads its  wings  like an eagle over  the  damaging influence  of  O2. 
sebo2000

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 227
 #3 
By looking at the diagram pics of the device, there is chamber that traps exhaled air with CO2 and we inhale that air again plus fresh air, this will increase our CO2, additionally water that traps the air adds small pressure between alveoli and outside during inhale and exhale.


Inspired air:
PO2=160
PCO2=0.3

Alveolus:
PO2=104
PCO2=40

This device will decrease the difference slowing down O2 load, and slightly increasing CO2, (the less the difference slower the exchange of both CO2 and O2)

This device should have adjustable chamber that traps exhaled air (like expandable piston), so we could adjust based on someone's lung size.

Juerg do you have Moxy data from someone breathing through this for some time 20-30min? Will this increase tHb due to increased HHb?


 




juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #4 
The  chamber size is  actually changed  with the  water  you use in the  inside    chamber. I  do not have  datas  with MOXY  but I did  some in  depth  studies  with  Portamon and Physio flow  and we   added  VO2   with a specific mouth piece  to it  so we  as well  where able to  collect CO2  feedback.As well we did  some blood testing. I  can not  show the data  as it w as a  contracted  study  for a specific  group  they paid  us  for the feedback.
bobbyjobling

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 217
 #5 
Interesting, is spirotiger similar in terms of CO2 recycling level?  can you still hyperventilate using Frolov (too much O2 due to chamber size)?
juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,501
 #6 
it is   very similar in the  way  they  try to use  CO2  or not.  In Frolow  you plan to have a certain CO2 level    for therapy reasons. The amount of  TV is very small and it needs a lot of training to get it just right. So in Frolov  you plan  and hope to achieve a  hypercapnic  situation and this  in a very low  VE  level  situation.. So you in fact  can create the exact  same  situation  naturally with respiratory training  and manipulation  so you do not need a   device.

With Spiro tiger  you actually   avoid  hyper or  hypocapnic despite the fact  that you my move a  very high VE  without additional muscle activity  than respiratory  muscles. So  you   will stay   normocapnic  thanks to the device.
 In simple terms. Normally if  you  would move  150 l VE  we  can assume that you have to  move very hard  and  a lot of muscles  to create the O2  demand and  the need  to get rid  of CO2. Th Spiro  tiger  avoids  hyper ventilation. 
But because  it is doing this  you can trick the device  and create  what ever you   lie to create  hypoxic  hypercapnic  and so on. It was never  designed  for that but  because it is  design  for normocapnic  you can play  with it. Fascinating topic    or  another forum
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.

HTML hit counter - Quick-counter.net