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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
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Posts: 1,530
 #1 
It was actually not really a question. It was more a statement  to gave us a hint that 60 watts may be very low to start a 3 min step test.
True , if you plan a 3 min classical step test the 60 watt may  be very low.
BUT. We do not attempt to do a 3 min classical step test . we plan a MY PAHD.
MY PAHD  means MY physiological assessment of  my homeostasis disruption
Yes : Homeostasis disruption. ( Hans Selyes G.A.S. )
This is a critical stage here on what we do and why we o it this way.
It is important o understand this part of fundamental physiological reactions to understand why we are so exited about MOXY.
That's why I like to spend some days on this specific section. Here a start but than I will tomorrow move on the  upper section of the E.U.K so people can follow the theory of this physiological challenge.
 Here some simple questions>
1. In a "classical" step test , where do you look for possible answers. ?
2. Where do we have the biggest homeostasis disruption in a step test or any test.
3.Where do we have the smallest homeostasis disruption if any ? in a 3 min step test ?
4. Where  and when do we have the biggest chance to see the different adaptation reactions of any system ( Team members) in a step test ?
5. When you plan a training . recovery program , do you like to know how systems react or do you like to calculate  mathematically where systems have statistically to react ?Give yourself some answers and ask more questions. We welcome any answers on here as  nobody can fail.

Remember the old Greek idea of science.
 look for the unseen real or  for the unreal seen ? ( Materialism)
Here to start a view of two step test 3 min
1. Beginner Carl  and  world class MTB athlete.
 It is a live info of HR and Stroke volume( Yellow in ml ) and green is HR x SV = CO Cardiac output L/min


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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #2 
hmmm not too many answers yet on our simple question:
 Where is the biggest homeostasis disruption. Or in other words. where do we see the least amount of answers  when we look to understand how the different systems may interact with each other compensate or limit the performance we see in wattage ?
 Let's move some more test we get in here as pictures.
Let's concentrate first still on the cardiac system and add to the HR the other component of  options for  limitation or compensation

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Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #3 
Okay , when we look each single test above, all started with a very low watt start level and no warm up we have one particular picture in common.
It is the picture of homeostasis disruption ( strongest at the first step and subsequent easy steps
till to a certain point. Even without specific  knowledge any body can pick up the  point , where this reaction is lost.
 Why: The intensity  at this and above this spot is either to  high to still be able to afford a "plateau " in HR. Or the  maximal SV ( stroke volume ) is reached and to further increase  CO ( cardiac output)
it is no only possible over a steady increase in HR.
 Or the 3 min step length at this point and above is simply too short to still allow a tryout for a possible homeostasis.
Warming up and too high start wattage  completely miss this cardiac information.
Remember  As we have team members like Cardiac system , respiratory system, Vascular system  and more.
 All of this team member  can as well  work with different option to  compensate some limitation.
 Here what I mean .
 The cardiac system is not just HR. It is  HR x SV = CO
 So either a client can react first with  increase in HR  , or increase in SV or  in both. This already will help us for future workouts to  decide, whether I like to stimulate more frequency or more Volume

Now that is not just   by the cardiac team member.
 How about the respiratory reaction.
 RF x TV = VE is basically the same option as the heart has.
 Now here we have an additional  situation. Too fast breathing and too much at the start can lead to a change in CO2 concentration, and as such to a change in oxygenation and de-oxygenation. We will look at this later.
 What I like to work towards is the fact, that the only  direct info we can see  is over MOXY.
 The same way we have a direct info on HR  we have a direct info on oxygenation trend.
 As well we have a direct info on respiration  . RF TV /VE
BUT
 VO2 as well as lactate are just indirect information's and as such  often end up with some speculation what may have happened  at the actual action site  ( Muscle )
 We will look tomorrow on a simple example on what NIRS really is .
 Have fun to go through this thoughts.
 Summary : Warm up like it is done in any research out there dramatically influences the test outcome and bodies reaction.
If we like to understand the  bodies  "stress" respond and homeostasis disruption reaction we have to include warm up in the assessment data collection.
 As in " classical " testing nobody is really interested in physiological info but rather in a maximal performance, where the TEAM fails , they do not care about  this information.  Any " classical " test  finds one single physiological info real . It is the " breakdown " of the whole team.  From than on any attempt to  define intensities is based purely on mathematical formulas rather than physiological in formations.
Andri

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 65
 #4 
To add a little something about the idea of protocol; I think Juerg that you are touching on this subject in your posts, but correct me if I am wrong. The question with exercise diagnostic testing is how do we complete a test or performance analysis that will maximize the extractable information, while maintaining the integrity of the information. Can a linear testing protocol, as traditionally used, as we are using currently in our project a Bruce protocol type of test, yield physiological information that can identify the various metabolic situations during activity? To go with a simple example HR. HR during a linear protocol will have a linear development, with a possible deflection. Apart from this deflection a HR curve tells use nothing when using a traditional training protocol. So there are some different possible solutions, first attempt to add more tools so that more information can be extracted; as Juerg mentioned, add a stroke volume diagnostic tool to complement HR. This is an option that needs to be explored, which is the very reason MOXY has so much potential. The second possible solution is changing or developing a testing protocol that best extracts physiological data during a hour of testing. In order to do this a clear understanding of how physiology reacts when specific stress is placed upon it is needed. Something that I find is missing in a traditional 3 min. Bruce protocol; this kind of 3 min. interval tests in my opinion is the result of tradition and simplicity rather than rational deliberation. This question about protocol is, what I believe Juerg is attempting to address. Lastly, it is important to differentiate between a testing protocol that will extract maximal data, and a testing protocol that will yield results you or anyone desires. A protocol is meant to yield real data that represents true physiology, not data that gives results about a single protocol. I hope this last point makes sense.
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #5 
H aha , that's when you are young and restless.
 Yes Andri put everything in perfect English , what I tried to pull out of our readers noses.
His advantage is , that he combines the  knowledge with English versus "swenglish"
There is exactly there  where he makes this point :
"Extractable information"
Or in pictures :
 2 teams :  Team A wins 3: 0  , Team B losses 0:3.
 Question :1. Which team PLAYED better versus which team had a better end result.
                 2. Which team will celebrate and  which team will analyze.
                 3. Which team learns more ?

Now let's put it into physiology :
A VO2 max test is team A or B.
 A Maximal HR test is ???
 A maximal lactate test is  ?

Now if we look at the  way the team is build up and who playes what kind of a role.
 A IPAHD system will look at :
HR trend and than ask questions. Why is the HR going up stayes flat or drops.
 Who influences HR . Who playes to get her with who and why are they success full or not success full.
 Here a possible dependency and one example under many .
  HR goes up  and drops again in the same step. ?
- HR overshoot and readjustment?
 HR drop because of strokevolume reaction.
 Stroke volume reaction because of End diastolic increase. (EDV )
EDV increase because of increase in available blood volume ( tHb up ) tHb up because of redistribution of blood flow ?
 Redistribution of blood flow due to vascular reaction:
 Vascular reaction ( vasodilatation or constriction ) due to respiratory  trend  ( Hyp or hypercapnia.
Respiratory reaction  with increase in RF .
 Increase in RF  due to drop in TV . TV drop due to ????

So you can see in "this " soccer Team the end result is important as well but to win a game they take very  care full steps to be sure each team member has an optimal position to play and is ready to full fill this task.
Summary : IPAHD looks at team members ability to build an optimal functioning team.
 Classical test look at the team end result with little interests why and who they reach the result.
 Remember :
 VO2 max is the sum of oxygen  used from all team members. So O2 used by the respiratory system, by the cardiac system , by the  active muscular system , by muscles they do not improve  the actual performance but are active due to bad economy , technique  and so on.Important example is a fatigue of the respiratory muscles so core strength disappears and  the stability and  strength  lines ( force lines ) are gone and a lot of energy lost due to instability in the core.
That's' why , once we reach VO2 results of 50 +- the idea to predict better performance in a sport is relative small as economy  may be much more important than absolute VO2 value.
A bad example due to the person involved is the New York marathon won by Paul Tergat ( Kenia ) a few years back. That's' when a " famous " cyclist was running it as well.
 Both had based on runners world info a VO2 max of 85 . The difference in the race time was close to 1 hour with the " same " VO2 max.
 In fact a 74 year old Canadian runner was slightly faster than the 85 VO2 max cyclist with under 3 hours as well and a VO2 of around 50.
 Many more example to show , that  VO2 max is an overall vie on O2 use but has only limited information on performance ability.
 So forget this as we open a very new field here.
Problem. or Chance.
 The first few test we got in are very great and from a really great group.
 Question :
 Why did they not followed the suggested protocol when we asked for a start wattage of 60 watt.
It is great to have this test as we can nicely show , why it does not work for an assessment when starting so high.
 So over the weekend I will start showing many examples and we will discuss.
Cheers Juerg


Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #6 
This question seems to  come up every time  a group likes  to try out our idea..
 Main respond is: The test will take too long.
 Here a question again back:
 How long is your client warming up before you start your lactate, FaCT  or VO2 test or any test ?
 How long does he cools down ?
 What do you like to achieve with "cooling " down ?

Here short  one more the main reason why we like to start    with a low wattage  level in any case and in fact in " weaker" athletes with a maximal wattage output of 240 +- wattage  60 may in fact be still too high.
 a) there is something called functional reaction
 and
B something called structural integration.
 Functional reaction is the actual reaction  described by Walter Cannon of the reaction on Fight and flight.

 Structural integration is the ability after the initial and repeated  alarm phase to actual react  structurally instead of functionally.
 Example in cardiac hemodynamic.
  Functional reaction  HR  goes up.
 In respiration functional  RF goes up
in muscular reaction intramuscular recruitment goes up.


Structural integration.
 In cardiac hemodynamic Stroke volume increases
 IN respiration TV increases
 in muscular;, , intermmuscular coordination improves.
 The slow start will show us very nicely over time how the client will change  physiological reactions in case of an alarmphase.
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