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Gunnar

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 #1 
Since my last 5-1-5 assessments in another thread here I have been sick for about a week. Today I did an easy bike ride and watched my moxy values live. I noticed that I was able to get the SmO2 value down to pretty low levels without any big effort so I started doing a few intervals using that. 
But take a look at what happened at about minute 30. Without changing the load, the SmO2 suddenly went up to the levels where it was in a relaxed status before. Thb decreased. 

Do you know what happened? How can this be explained?

Measurement done on right VL.

Gunnar - 2017-02-08T21-55-18 - Snapshot.png

 
Attached Files
csv Gunnar_-_Ride-_2017-02-08.csv (504.50 KB, 4 views)

CraigMahony

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 #2 
It would appear as though venous return has increased markedly thus lowering HHB and that OHb has increased perhaps indicating a dilation of the blood vessels. Not sure what would cause this. My first thought was an increase in CO2. However, I cannot see evidence of that myself, maybe someone else can. Maybe it just took a long time to fully warm up?
GunnarPic.jpg 


CBSquared

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 #3 
I have had seen similiar effects after I've been ill when coming back (actually right now)  My smO2 levels are higher than normal and have troubles getting them down to where I can normally operate.
I also see this same trend when I'm fatigued.

So maybe the right thing is to be looking more at the trends: what you see when fatigued, ill or and when fresh and going well...  Maybe we should be looking more for 'patterns' and look how those trends are represented on an individual bases (general rules not absolute rules).
I think Moxy can give you great insight into a persons physiology but not everyone is the same...
bobbyjobling

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 #4 
The reason we see high smO2 when we fatigue, might be due to a change in the neuromuscular activation patterns. It is normally reduced or diverted to less efficient muscle so less SmO2 is used, tHb could be higher too due to less muscular tension.

With regards to the above example, I'm not to sure.

It could be a combination of things like: change in muscular cordination or body position.... HR is mantained during the load which we see an increase of smO2 so the systematic demand has not changed that's why I think it is muscular cordination and or new body position.


CBSquared

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 #5 
Thanks Bobby - "The reason we see high smO2 when we fatigue, might be due to a change in the neuromuscular activation patterns"  - that is what I expect also though not everyone reacts exactly the same...

Just read the original post again and think I may have misread what he was asking.
I think I may agree with Craig - it looks like it may have just taken him a long time to warm-up...  Or as you say maybe something has changed.  

I think it is more important at looking at trends over time than just a one off incident (unless this was a important event or race...).  
In any case it's always interesting to see how peoples different physiology reacts.
Gunnar

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 #6 
Thank you for your comments.
This was a one time phenomena. I haven't seen it again since then.

I'm at the moment also tending to believe that it simply took a very long time to warm up.
bobbyjobling

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 #7 
CBS. You are right, I think we can experience different types of fatigue and each type my have different Moxy responses.

What type of response would we get from MoXy if the fatigue was caused by one of the items listed below:
1) depleate glycogen (hitting the wall)
2) dehydration
3) sleep deprivation
4) cardiovascular fatigue
5) respiratory fatigue

Gunnar

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 #8 
On point 1 (bonking) I would suspect that the Smo2 goes up to higher values.
The reason would be that since the body wants to use fat as energy, it needs a lot of oxygen for processing it.
At the same time as the Smo2 goes up, the power (assuming it's cycling) that can be held will be reduced.
CBSquared

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 #9 
Great questions - maybe you should start another thread with your questions....

to be honest for 2 (dehydration) and especially 5 (respiratory fatigue ) I'm not sure - would like to see what you have seen

for 3 (sleep deprivation) - I can do a test now or in the morning and that will clearly show you the answer (too much happening and not enough sleep at the moment)

for 4 (cardiovascular fatigue) - I think thb and HR are good indicators (lower max hr and unresponsive thb)  I should go back and look though

For 1 (depleted glycogen - though my example may be more neuro-muscular fatigue)
I've attached what I think is a good example from a race that my wife entered me in when I had limited/no training training prior and too hard workout the day prior...
You can see that over time smO2 no longer responds and stays higher under load.  Normally I can operate at very low smO2 levels (< 15% for prolong periods of time) - in this case when cramping I was not going below 78%
Interesting I really worked on recover for the last section of the race and was paying close attention to my Moxy values on the Garmin.  At the end in an field of 80+ high quality riders was pretty amazed to end up in 7th with almost not training (add excuse here why didn't do better)

Moxy really helped me manage my fatigue / recovery so I could still have a go at the end when typically I would not just blown up.  During a race I find Moxy much more useful than my power meter.

fatigue and cramping.png 

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