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ryinc

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 #1 
Here is an example of a workout that resulted in venous occlusion that i thought i would share

The workout was as follows:
A warmup phase, straight into the following interval repeated 7 times, all at a cadence of 50
1 minute at about 75% FTP, 3 minutes at 90% FTP, 1 minute at 105% FTP. 1 min recovery

Moxy was on right RF, and this was in a fairly fatigued state (hard 3 hour ride the day before). In the 1 min recoveries, the first 40 seconds or so was complete recovery than remaining portion light pedaling.

I have not discussed with the workout designer, but assume the objective of the session was muscular strength development - and given what seems to be clear venous occlusion trend it looks as though it was successful to me. In the last 1 min of load (increase in load) it seems that it possibly turns into a full occlusion as tHb flattens out.



20160912 Venous Occlusions.png 



 
Attached Files
csv 20160912_Venous_occlusions.csv (125.84 KB, 11 views)

Stuart percival

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 #2 
How do you reduce this Graph Ryan?

ryinc

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 #3 
Stuart not sure i understand your question. Is it "how did i produce this graph" if yes, then the answer is golden cheetah - free open source cycling analytics software

If you were asking another question let me know.
Stuart percival

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 #4 
'Produce ' yes sorry typo!
ryinc

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Posts: 360
 #5 
I thought i would provide a follow up here.

Today i did the same/almost identical workout, with the Moxy on the same muscle. The difference was that this time, I was relatively fresh whereas on the previous occassion was after a hard ride the day before. The result in terms of Sm02 was very different:
1 - The Sm02 dropped much more sharply as soon as cadence went down to 50
2 - The overall Sm02 level dropped much much lower.
3 - There was a trend of dropping THb in the fatigued state during the 1 min rest periods (presumably venous occlusion), but not in the latest workout.

Heart rate was almost identical in the two workouts - so my thoughts are that the difference is local RF muscle fatigue resulting in occlusion (or i suppose the possibility of SV fatigue causing weak CO).

Would appreciate any thoughts on which is the more likely.

Here is the graph of the latest workout (non-fatigued)
20161024 No Venous Occlusions.png 
And for ease of reference here was the original which was in a fatigued state.

20160912 Venous Occlusions.png 

juergfeldmann

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 #6 
Hmm  help.
the overall Sm02 level dropped much much lower.
Looks  to me in the non fatigued  workout  SmO2  dropped  to  30 +-
in the   last  graph  you may call fatigued  it  looks  down  to  10 +-
Thanks  for the help
ryinc

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Posts: 360
 #7 
Juerg yes, smo2 sharper drops when cadence dropped to 50 in the intervals in the workout., lower smo2 levels reached and thb drops.during recovery in the fatigued state.
ryinc

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Posts: 360
 #8 
Here are maybe cleaner graphs which are easier to see (note the scales are not the same!). Non-fatigued graph first, fatigued graph second.

24 Oct.png  12 Sep.png 

juergfeldmann

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 #9 
HMM TRIED  TO OPEN  THE CSV  FILE  From THE "FATIGUED "  CSV  BUT HAVE ONLY hr ON THERE  NO  moxy FEEDBACK  LIKE sMo2  AND ThB  HELP   WHAT  DO i DO WRONG.?
ryinc

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Posts: 360
 #10 
Juerg I am sorry, I am not sure what went wrong there.

I have attached the two files again - hopefully this works better.

 
Attached Files
csv 20160912_Fatigued_Low_Cadence.csv (85.38 KB, 9 views)
csv 20161024_Non-Fatigued_Low_Cadence.csv (83.74 KB, 7 views)

juergfeldmann

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 #11 
thanks  will try this evening  cheers
juergfeldmann

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 #12 
Super  fun  to play  with this numbers.   Most  fun as I have not yet a  decent  answer  so have to keep going and  will show  some  prints  later.
ryinc

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 #13 
Hi Juerg, please remember to share the fun that you have had with these numbers [smile]

juergfeldmann

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 #14 
Ryan, thanks  for the  reminder, completely got under so will open  the  file  and will  show it  here for discussion.
I am getting   so great  and so many mails  with examples  and ideas  so I often just  try to learn  for myself and than forget  where I put is, BUT I have a  Ryan  file.  so for sure there.
juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #15 
Okay  short  start to  this  discussion.  The  question  is ,  :
 What  do this  2   similar to same load  workouts  show  in difference  and why can we use NIRS  to actually decide on the workout  day , what we   still need  to either recover  better or  we  decide  to overload even more.  Here  the interesting difference between the  2  workouts, when looking at tHb  trends.

 Now in the advanced  NIRS  level interpretation w euse  as well tHb  so lets  start her with tHb.
 For me  I  ask always :
 What does  tHB  represent  in trends. 
 What  influences  tHb  trends . 
a)mechanical  forces  :  Gravity , pressure  and more
b)or systemic     reasons  ( Vasoconstriction  and vasodilatation.)
c)  during  the load  or in the rest period  , where the muscle activity may be low ( not always.



fat  non fat  tHb overlapp.jpg








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