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fitbyfred

Development Team Member
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Posts: 168
 #1 
I'm keenly working the MOXY into the strength coaching side of my business.

Since starting, I note two particular SmO2 loading/unloading situations that occur often, especially when the lifts are more intense...

Question / observation: can MOXY AND STRENGTH TRAINING show clear signs of delivery limitation?

If you feel it can, in your opinion, how may that reaction commonly appear on MOXY data ?

Thx for any thoughts you can share,

Fred from Canada (far) East
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #2 
Fred,
 thanks great    discussion  idea  on here.

"Question / observation: can MOXY AND STRENGTH TRAINING show clear signs of delivery limitation?

The word  clear signs  is a hard  word  to swallow  , as  we are biased.
 So I  will try  to argue, that there are signs  indicating  delivery problems  when using MOXY  in any kind of activities ( not just strength)
First  we would have  to  discuss, what a delivery problem is  and   how we would  use this  idea with MOXY.
 As Moxy is  an equipment we mainly look for the trend in oxygenation we  would look initially on a delivery  limitations  ( problems ) in  connection with  oxygen delivery.
. Now    to make it simple:
  How do we deliver the O2  to the assessment area.
 .
 1>  Cardiac out put   in combination with respiration  .
  Therefor we always look on signs on the idea of  the ECGM  ( extended  central governor muscle )
 where  the cardiac  or the respiratory system  may interfere  over   feedback to the brain  on the risk of  running into trouble  with O2  delivery.
 Different options  for the CG  to react:
 1. Vasoconstriction  and or    reduce  motor unit recruitment, which than secondary can create a vaso constriction. This would be  centrally  coordinated and but as well peripherally   seen as a reaction..
 The increase  in   O2  need   combined with a decrease in delivery of blood  would  show up as a drop in SmO2    more used than delivered and at the same time a  drop in tHb.
  Now  if we go  to a muscular workout  like a biceps curl. that the  chance that the ECGM  may  run into severe problems relative limited. So the reaction may be  closer  to home locally  at the biceps  area.
 That's when the idea of Rhomert  and the increase In muscle tension comes in, where  muscle tension can start to limit  vascular diameter  and as such  the delivery of blood. This will show up as a  drop in tHb.
 In an occlusion test we   would  see a  increase in tHb  and or a  stable tHb.
  In a  compression / occlusion reaction like we have  at the assessed  site, we  will always see, first a drop in tHb  . Compression of blood vessels   and an outflow  of  blood   towards the venous   system  and a back flow of blood  towards the arterial  site, if it is an explosive contraction . If it is a gradual contraction it will be less visible.
 If it is an   explosive contraction ,we often see an initial outflow  followed by a short  decompression increase in tHb  and again a  small outflow.
 If the  tension reaches  venous pressure, than we will see  an out flow  followed by  an inflow       and   a possible plateau  , but erratic tHb  pattern.
 If you keep increasing the tension and you reach a  arterial  compression pressure ,you will see  an out flow  followed by an increase and a plateau.  and after you release  an increase as a  reaction after the load.
 We  did    hundreds  of assessment  where we combined  SEMG  and  MOXY  and here is one of many examples   and you can see the %  of  maximal SEMG activity. We tested  from  resting SEMG  up to 100 % SEMG  to see, where and when  we actually see a  venous occlusion moving into an  arterial occlusion after initial  compression reactions .Here one example , done  By Nick Mc Lean  from the University of Kelowna  ( Satellite  of UBC ) during his   summer   job   placement in my office. You can follow the  reactions step by step.
 The key question is:
 How hard is  hard enough  for what kind of result.
 Do we  have to go hypoxic  to create a proper reaction  and if  ,  how long  , and  how long do we rest   before we  reload   .
So answer as a summary.
I believe  we can  use MOXY  we just need to convince  big groups  to learn to  look form a physiological side  rather than a mathematical idea.
 Why  70 %   load if  50 % in your client  may do the trick.
 Why 5  reps   when 2  reps may  be good enough , why 1 min rest  when  you may need different rest  times after each step  depending on relaxation of muscles  and  refueling of  SmO2  . Perhaps you may not like to refuel  perhaps you may like to " over fuel" Many open questions  so    lot's of interesting times coming into  strength workouts. What is for sure it is  super motivation  to see your SmO2    dropping as you do your workout  and recovering as  you try to relax.
Thanks Fred  great  critical input  hope  I gave a decent answer. 

Pics    1  67 %  muscle tension  ( force / strenght ) based on SEMG.
 Pic 2 idea of  blood flow  due to contraction in a big  blood vessels.
 
Pic three  isometric  contraction  with  yellow  as the tHb  info. You can se the " fibration in the  veneosu  occlusion phase.
  Pic  4   from an old  presentation   I did  1979 )   on  physiological reactions  need to be used for a  proper physiological  respond  rather thAN  mathematical formulas.
 Hmmm   it is  in  simple words over a quarter  century back and where  are we now   ( Smile )

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fitbyfred

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 168
 #3 
Juerg, hi, and thx for your input. Great as always, and leads us to more questions.

From the work with MOXY monitored strength to date, I see a couple situations quite common:

- group 1 pushes hard to drop SmO2 and unloads to 50-70%
- group 2 pushes as hard to drop SmO2 and unloads to 20% or lower

Some of the questions which arise are:

Do I look to the client's RRA for the answer?
Is it Vasalva?
Is it central - cardiac?
Is it peripheral - structure / strength?
Is it movement tempo? If tempo, which is more suitable for either situation ?

Just thinking out loud now, Juerg. I know the clear answers are in the future.




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fitbyfred

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 168
 #4 
Andri, hi, g'morning and thank you for your note.

Perhaps I am over thinking the situations, and what I'm observing during strength workouts is simply the different responding between trained and untrained lifters? For now, I'll keep using MOXY to guide each situation to unload to the best performance and reload to best recovery lines. Will keep to that until we see what changes occur, and if we like the changes, we'll keep going.

Happy to read up on MOXY strength training book as it's available.

Cheers,
Juerg Feldmann

Fortiori Design LLC
Registered:
Posts: 1,530
 #5 

Fred, thanks  as usual.
 Your  loud thinking is great, as this are exactly  some of possibly many more questions.
 The interesting  part s, that when we look in the real world  ( not a critic  but a reality check )  is that  we are all " experts"  and  do and sell  ideas and workouts  to clients   . Do we really  understand  what we sell ???

Our simple idea is  that we build a net work  of  MOXY or what ever named  centers  world wide  .  Now  we do not  now  what we  do but we  can look  for open minded  people doing their  ideas but  are open enough to assess and reassess and than we can share the info  over SWINCO  the research    center in Switzerland.  Now we  will in a short time  understand more ( not all) but possibly will smile about certain  ideas we have or had   and sold  without actually knowing the  outcome.
 So  we  can set up workouts  based on MOXY trends, where we  simply load to the lowest  SmO2  and recover back to base line.
 Or  we  load  and  go down to  lowest SmO2  and  maintain a plateau  for a while  and go up to base line.
 Or  any  possibly option we can now  physiologically control.
 We  can do  slow movements versus fast , with  respiration or holding breath  With holding breath but release CO2  and so on.
  The    ideas are limitless the questions as well  but as  well the missing answers.

What we  really look for is   for people like You a and many of the readers   coming together  and  creating  this unique opportunity  to   develop practical applications  instead of some " smart " papers  with a few  case studies  for a  very selected   group of readers.
What we hope is  to get feedback's  like in this case.  What we  often see, is that many "free" moxy users  never  come back  with feed backs or anything  but simply  either don't  use it of cook in their own secret  kitchen ( Miraculix) or  are simply not ready to share  but than collect many  good  as well as many  bad  ideas or  mistakes we make.
  So  to all come out   and share  and  help  so we all improve  and have fun  going  steps  forward  than  do nothing.  Summary:
  With the ability  to see  information now with MOXY we have the chance to actually add to  simple numbers  like 5  sets  15 reps  actual  some information on "physiological performance" . This will allow  to customize  workouts so we have  the same physiological load    instead the same mathematical  numbers.
 This way  we may  start to understand  why  certain workouts  work well with certain people and the same workout  does not work on another person.
 Same load  one person may desaturate    from 85 to 60  and another from 85 to 15.  So why ?

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