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Development Team Member
Posts: 49
Juerg - Thank you so much for taking the time on Christmas to write this series of long and detailed explanations and interpretations.  I feel confident after reading through them in saying I over utilize my VL, and when it starts to get tired and my RF needs to help out, its unprepared and tires easily.  My glutes seem to be truly acting as a caboose along for the ride, but also benefitting from the extra blood flow to the region.  

During the work week I will  dedicate to on the bike exercises to work on coordination and engagement of my RF and Glutes, and also some off the bike strengthening of those same areas.  On the weekends I will use the extra free time to complete long "base mile" type rides, using what I know now about SMO2 levels at given HR and wattages to gauge my efforts... or just wear my moxy during those rides.

After 4 weeks or so I can do another assessment and see.  When I do the next assessment I will be sure to post it here for sharing.

Thanks again.   Happy Holidays.

Development Team Member
Posts: 1,501
Sounds like  a great plan.
 Here some  hints   on  your  great plan.
 1.Strength training  has to be an integral part of the motion you plan to  do   so it does not interfere  with  an optimal  efficient  coordination.

 2. Strength training has  the risk  that we create  power  without  being able to  supply this power sufficient    long  with  energy.

Verkhoshansky Yuri

“It would be wrong to think that the aim of physical preparation is only the development of muscular strength. The strength capacities of skeletal muscles are secured from the energy produced from the corresponding biochemical processes (metabolic energy).” 

}“Specific physical preparation means have to develop above all the capacity of the body to provide energy for effective specific muscular work”

The role of an athlete’s strength and conditioning program


 just to improve strength or conditioning.It is first and foremost to increase their potential to produce energy.

 This increase in energy is what provides the foundation for the athlete to perform their skills faster. 

To perform high speed skills faster, the athlete must increase their rate of energy production (power).

 To increase how long they can maintain their speed without slowing down, the athlete must be able to produce energy for longer (endurance)  

 Better  energy delivery  and utilization  = better performance.

The biggest mistake is to increase an athlete’s ability to produce force or power, without also developing the capacity for increased energy production that’s necessary to use it within the physical demands of their sport. 

Energy production should be viewed as a fundamental component and objective of every athlete’s entire yearly training program.

 It is NOT something that just needs to be considered a few weeks before the competitive season starts. 

The  type  of exercise  we  choose  for a specific  sport  are crucial  to avoid an improved  strength   outside  an optimal  team work of  coordination. With that  we  would  create  an additional   place, where O2  is used  without  an additional benefit  to the  teams overall efficiency and performance.

 There are some  classical  exercises  out there  and  the  cyclist   compared  to the  runner  (  so Triathletes   are in a  dilemma  [wink]  here have some very different intermuscular  coordination  when it comes  to hip extensor and  knee flexion  versus  hip flexor and knee extensor.

I am  hopeful that  the many triathlon coaches  on here can  give  you some pointer on this or the  runner coaches  can tell  you  how  they train this  pattern  and than the cycling coaches  can tell you how  they train  the pattern  for cyclists  and than you will easy  see the difference.  Now  the fun part starts  than as we  can use  either  SEMG  or   now  MOXY  to  see,whether the  exercises really attracts  the planned  intermusular coordination  or whether it  simply attract  muscle contractions  relative randomly in the leg.

The combination of both now is a dream, as we have not just  the firing pattern, but as well the  energy reaction in this mussels.

We did  woow   that how  fast we  get old  now  35 - 440 years back   what we called  10)1 critical  views  on  common  exercises  with SEMG  and we  where often  blown away,  how  bad we where  by thinking we   would know  how the muscle  would react.
( Thanks for that great time  to Prof Debrunner  ETH  Zuerich  and  University of Bern )

Below a relative new  study  2003   on aa  bike  from a  top  cyclist looking at  RF  and hamstrings in different loads

emg RH.JPG 

Bellow  some much older  ideas   to show  on a  weight lift  pattern .

semg weight lifting 1.jpg 

semg weight lifting 2.jpg


Development Team Member
Posts: 227


Juerg you made my day with your Christmas animal’s pictures [smile]

So many times in sports things totally are not what they appear to be, only under detailed analysis we might find completely different meanings and explanations, so is in life.

Here is funny/sad story form just few days ago. We just came from Europe, my in laws live in small little village, to be exact on the edge of small remote little village and forest. Absolutely gougers place.
Mother in law asked my 11y old daughter; would you like to get some chicken soup, since it is her favorite food, she didn't have to convince her much longer.

She got a plate with the soup and pieces of chicken, a real chicken; free run home raised without any antibiotics fed with real food\grain, same as turkeys on your picture.

She tries and goes: this is not a chicken, it doesn't taste like Toronto chicken at all, and this must be a rabbit. I started to laugh and ask her: how do you know how the rabbit taste like, you never had a rabbit. 
She goes: I do not know, but this for sure is not a chicken, you are trying to make me eat rabbits, please don't mess with my taste.

At that time we are all laughing, she is even more convinced about her chicken being a rabbit. 

And here is me, showing her the truth, while being accused of messing with her senses.

While food industry responsible for changing the taste of real chickens is the one that is taken as the absolute truth. It took us quite a while to explain all that, this brought even more questions and confusion, why would they ever do that...

 So many similar misunderstandings in sports and training.


Here is analogy:

I’m right now training at way lower power, but in my opinion physiologically way harder than 2 months ago.

I did 90 min workout 2 days ago, at the end I was tired and hungry like crazy.  I could easily complete workout at this intensity 2 months back without feeling any fatigue or hunger, 2 months ago I would have almost fresh feeling after 90min at this intensity.

Technical details workout at 232W to give perspective it is roughly 76% of 60min power. My HR before was 120-130bmp, now at the same intensity is 130-140bpm.

 Local guys I was riding with made tons of comments about me getting weaker, I’m arguing I’m getting much stronger, they were saying, it doesn’t look like… plus I can’t get stronger if I’m training at lower intensities…

Those are the general gym misconceptions.

My average Smo2 on VL at that intensity was 39-40%, now it is 48-50%, Smo2 on my hamstrings and RL decreased about 5%, I finally started utilizing the rest of my muscles during longer efforts not only during sprints. I feel weaker during those workouts, but I’m convinced I'm getting stronger…

Sounds exactly like the chicken that doesn’t taste like chicken [smile]


Development Team Member
Posts: 369
Great story about the chicken soup Sebo - loved it.

Development Team Member
Posts: 1,501
Seebo   welcome in the  "kitchen"  and as  you point  out  there are different ways  you can " cook"   your body  to have  a real good  meal at the end of  the preparation. 
  Now  we can add some spice  to your current lower intensity  load by  going  even slower  or lower  power. Sent me  an e mail  so i ave your contact  and I give  you some ingredients  to  try to your great  meal. 
 Cheers Juerg


Development Team Member
Posts: 49
Edited this post....
I wasn't quite satisfied using a single load or abbreviated 5-1-5 from the other night, and my very first assessment posted in this thread was a regular 5 minute step gradient test.   So just to compare apples to apples.... even if it may be macintosh to gala.

The graphs represent the last few loads, but if you are curious the full file is attached.
All the graphs are comparisons between my first assessment and the one I performed tonight except for the bias graphs.

** its worth noting I did an off the bike strength training workout yesterday.

In my opinion my most recent assessment seems to show improvement.  Maybe its just wishful thinking but when I look at the different trends, and not just the values it looks better based upon what I've learned.
Capture1.PNG  Capture2.PNG  Capture3.PNG  Capture4.PNG

Attached Files
xlsx jschiltz_-_5_minute_step_test_1-27-17.xlsx (324.04 KB, 4 views)
xlsx jschiltz_-_comparison_-_last_few_loads.xlsx (339.21 KB, 4 views)


Development Team Member
Posts: 49
Hey Guys... I just realized that since I edited my post to add graphs and data it shows as an older post. I would really appreciate some additional opinions on my most recent data.

Definitely still alot of work to do, but I think I'm on the right track
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