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DanieleM

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 #16 
Etienne, I think the recovery is quite personal, anyway I would recommend one day full rest, a very easy workout the day after and test the day after that.

juergfeldmann

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 #17 
First  of  all what a great  quality  of discussion  and information.
 Incredible  how  far we moved in this year and it is  very rewarding  after all this years  to increase the discussion  far  above and beyond  our internal crazy  circle of  NRS users.  I  am far behind with answering  mails  and for sure  answering or  giving feedbacks  on here, which really is my   fun time .

 So  I checked with my students a  year review  on what was  fun  what was  less fun and what  was annoying  for them.
 As  every  great  smart student  they gave me  first the  cookies  and than  a reality  check. Here the   honest  reality check I really loved  as they  brought it up very smart  and kind  ( hahah  )
 Reality  and annoying is, that  I am super messy  and jump all over the place  whit ideas  thoughts  and  explanations. How  true. So  s very body of us  makes a new year goal  I  try  (can you read  carefully   TRY )  to improve,  so no promises.
  o here a first  TRY.
 If   the great    team  from south Africa allow  me , I like to use this  data  and   will ask  for more  to go deeper into  the ideas and philosophy  of  NIRS  applications.  I like to start to threads.

 1. Theory  and  accepted study  to back up  what we argue  on the 5/1/5  data  we discuss on here.
 I like to  go   really step  by step  on what we  see or what we  hope to see  and will add when ever  accepted studies are  existing or  our own studies  if nobody yet  did this kind a of  assessments. This  section  as well can be used for  counter points  with accepted studies to  show.
 2. But than I like to  separate the questions  or  suggested  answers  on an additional thread   under the  name   possible  answers    to create  more questions. So we can discuss there  and keep  track on the step by step  feedback on  the data on the other thread  with not  moving  all over the place there.

Than I like to  do the same  with  some great VO2  NIRS  combination sent to us  from  top cross country  ski center .Same idea 2 threads. Data discussion and observation  step by step .  and than  possible answers  and questions to the data's.

Hope this  makes  some sense  but  get me on the proper track ( or at least  try )

And I own Jiri a long long in depth  discussion on some  absolutely  world  class  test result he  did  with VO2  ,Physioflow  and NIRS  and I may,  depending on the discussion ask him  without  using names  to  shows  some very interesting points from his  great  research  example.

Last but not least  for al great positive critical readers.
There  is only  a handful of  centers  world  wide, who really  is  using the total  combination we  use  to  actually  do physiological testing. Hard to believe,  but there is  NOT  one  single  accepted    study  from any great university out there , who ever used this combination. If you find  any  current studies    with the  following combination please  shows it up on here. The main reason is , nobody yet  uses this combination. So  to answer daily  questions:
Where is the peer  review  and where is the accepted  information. There is non, as nobody  is   doing this  yet. I  just   go  some  questions  and  ideas  forma  top university  and we discussed  some ideas on a  study  they like to  do  and when the discussion was coming up, that cardiac  feedback is crucial   to see reactions  between  blood flow  and energy  transport, the answer was, that they not have the budget  to get a Physio flow  so they will just  theoretically  calculate  CO  and SV.
 Nice  but ??????

 This is the  full time job of this   Prof.  ( Full time  not bad  payed ) you know  what I mean.the tools   is  apart of his  job    and the tools are a combination  of brain power  and  actual equipment.

If  I  hire a  Plummer  to fix  my drainage   and he shoes   up  with his brain and tells  me  how  theoretically he  would fix this broken  pipe but unfortunately he  has not the tools  to  do it but he  could  us a  roll of  Duct  tape to fix  it somewhat ??? would you hire him,  would we not expect  that professional exercise  physiological guys  have the latest tool  available  and not wait  for   the university to buy it.  As a goat farmer  I buy  what ever comes  up   to satisfy  my   imagination  to  offer my clients in a mall town the best  I  can offer  on my  field.  So if  I need a physio flow I buy one, If  I need 8 MOXY's  I buy them   from Roger, If  I need a  new SEMG  I order one.
 True  my  Financial Boss is not always that happy,  but  I need it  as I like to know  what I am  at least try  to  do. 
Okay  here the combination  we  do  one more time.

1. Cardiac  feedback  with any non-invasive    equipment. We  prefer  the Physio  flow  from Frank  Bour  and his  dad  Jean Bour. It I  perfect in size  , can be used in the field  an has  an incredible software  with it.
2. VO2  . We  use   or used    Fit mate  from Cosmed  Italy or a K2b portable  VO2  equipment.
 The Fit made is much cheaper and  can be put in a back bag  and is  so portable as well depending on sports  .
If  we used  Fit made we had a Emma capno meter  from Sweden to get CO2  feedback  as well  .
3. NIRS.  Portamon and   as many MOXY's  as possible . 
4.  SEMG   dual channels  and multi channels   from   different companies the most likely   one is the BTS Italy
5. Bio harness  for  different  g  forces  depending on sport  and  respiratory  quality .
6. Blood test   I stat  and  other options like lactate  ammonia  from  Akray  and Blood sugar  from what ever you get  for free. And  any other interesting equipment you may suggest. o see you later  with new  threads. to start  perhaps  a  more sorted  approach.

ryinc

Development Team Member
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Posts: 369
 #18 
" If   the great    team  from south Africa allow  me , I like to use this  data  and   will ask  for more  to go deeper into  the ideas and philosophy  of  NIRS  applications.  I like to start to threads."

Jeurg, you are welcome to use the data.
juergfeldmann

Development Team Member
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Posts: 1,501
 #19 
Some  2015  thought.
 Regarding the recovery before a 5-1-5. Are there any guidelines or tell-tale signs to look for that would indicate that an athlete is not yet ready or recovered enough for a test?

The "old" school approach is usually nothing heavy 12-24 hours before a test, longer if you were doing something very intensive (like say a long bike race or marathon). Anything similar for a Moxy test?

Etienne, I think the recovery is quite personal, anyway I would recommend one day full rest, a very easy workout the day after and test the day after that.

I hope  I  can get the message better trough.  Physiological assessments  are NOT a test.
 So  when we like to find out  what  individual recovery times  we have  for individual physiological systems  we  do NOT  have a rest  day  as we  do a physiological assessment    to see, how the reactions are.
.
 I know it is hard  to get the idea  in to our heads,  that a  TEST  you  can fail. that's  what we  learn  early in our life's in school.

Originally a test  really was here to  get the teacher a chance to see,  whether he  got his message through to the students. So if they  failed  it is really a  failing of the teaching  quality of the teacher.
 So 2015  I   did  very poorly  as   my' Students"  still fail  to understand, that physiological assessments   have  minimal   connections  to  testing.

Here in short.
 Physiological assessments  search    for limiters.
 Optimal is  to have one physiolo0ogicla assessment in a very  recovered  stage.

From now  on  we  make  physiological assessments     after  any  workout  I\ where I lie to see  how  the limiter may show  up.
 Example. Make a  respiratory  overload  and   the next  day or even after the  workout  do a  physiological assessment  as you  know the limiter  for sure.
 Make a cardiac overload  and  for the same  make a muscular over load  and do the same.
 Re asses every day  and see how   long it takes  to be back on the recorded  assessment  graph.

 You  cna do the assessment  active or passive.
 Passive  can be  over  HRV  and RRA  and phase angle.
 HRV  for cardiac feedback  but you have to  add RRA  and  for  respiration the  same  just look RRA  and than HRV.
 For muscular  load s you can use a phase angel option  or  SEMG  and  if you have enough data s  SmO2  thb  resting trends. We  showed  that  already once before on the  forum.
ryinc

Development Team Member
Registered:
Posts: 369
 #20 
"If   the great    team  from south Africa allow  me , I like to use this  data  and   will ask  for more  to go deeper into  the ideas and philosophy  of  NIRS  applications.  I like to start to threads." 

Jeurg, i hope you have not forgotten about us to start the threads referred to above....
Ruud_G

Development Team Member
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Posts: 279
 #21 
Ryinc. I think there is a line waiting haha. I was first! haha.
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