Registered: 1363469067 Posts: 45
I think the following details might have helped the previous conversation:
Was the interval itself a repetitive task (cycling, skating over given distance) or a single motion (single squat under high load)? Was the athlete given a countdown prior to the start ("On your mark, get set, go!")? Was this countdown changed in any way in the 2 and third sets? We could see where the interval began, but not the duration of the interval itself. Was the interval set over a specific duration or distance? I presume the interval was very short, and that the it lasted through to the end of the sudden drop in tHb, and then resulted in the overshoot we see in tHb. And then I would think there was a period of active recovery, leading to the drop in tHb until just prior to the next interval. Now, without getting any further feedback, I will go out on a limb with some possible explanation of what I saw. However, I think that it is probably too early in the discussion for me to make any clear conclusions as to the cause. It would probably be safer to await the response to my first questions/enquiries before speaking further. But I have never been one to hold back my opinion... I am able to see the elevated tHb in advance of the first and second interval, and wonder, if it WAS an interval like an all out short interval skate test, whether the athlete prepared for the sprint by lining up on the blue line with his muscles under tension, and awaited a start signal (similar to a short track speed skater). Or, whether he was skating around the outside of the rink, and had a coach counting down to give him an indication of the start of the interval, and began to slowly accelerate before the next interval began. I believe both of these scenarios could lead to what we saw in the first step, regardless of the breathing pattern he incorporated. If either of these were the case, perhaps, the reason we didn't see the same trend is because the athlete prepared for the third interval in a different manner than the previous ones. The same possible scenario cold take place on a bike, or on a track, where an athlete changes starting body position throughout the session itself. Thanks for sharing this interesting case study Juerg. Could you please add some details to describe the intervals themselves so we can better picture what might have happened in this particular case?
Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530
Thanks for this nice feedback. Here some info's based on what we see on the graph. It is from the software we always show in the forum so green is SmO2 and brown is tHb. Left axis you have SmO2 in % and right you have a relative scale as usual for tHb. The bottom axis is rime in seconds as usual and when using the MOXY app to download it is in 2 seconds info. So 30 as a number is 30 seconds. so answer to first question: 1.Was the interval itself a repetitive task (cycling, skating over given distance) or a single motion (single squat under high load)? You can see it is a 30 second load with a 21/2 min rest in between when you look at the time line and you look at SmO2 reaction. So it is a typical acyclic test done on the ice with ice hockey player. So it was a repetitive task as you can see easy and it was time restricted for 30 sec as you can see as well and it was a fixed 21/2 rest period in between doing nothing just waiting in standing by the "bench". This is the statistical load tested by the IHF ( international hockey federation and shows the load and rest time for a player statistically during a game. or a single motion (single squat under high load)? we showed a few times single loads like squatting with different loads to see, whether Rhomerts vascular reaction he propagated in the late 1960 still has some merits. as this information is helpful to think about possible options in tHb reactions. Was the athlete given a countdown prior to the start ("On your mark, get set, go!")? Yes he knew it is an important test and he had a ready go signal for all three loads always exactly the same way. The " stress" is like a race as we always test 4 athletes at the same time on the ice so they actually race against each other but on 4 separate courses but equal courses. The data's are life on the lap top and we as well have HR life. Was this countdown changed in any way in the 2 and third sets? No all is always the same in all 3 sets. We could see where the interval began, but not the duration of the interval itself. Was the interval set over a specific duration or distance? Yes marker was set on start and we have on this no marker for stop . Time was 30 seconds so you can see marker as we made the time grid for 30 seconds. And then I would think there was a period of active recovery, leading to the drop in tHb until just prior to the next interval. No there was no active recovery just bang stop and wait standing before going again after a 21/2 min break. There are certain reasons we explained on this forum why we have no active recovery but certain interventions later, once we have the athletes acyclic loading and deloading profile. In ice hockey despite this high all out load the player always has a "passive " recovery due to the game and he is off the ice. Nevertheless we do not have any disadvantages with load and when adding some specific intervention we actually can see improvement of performance in athletes The section with ideas on start or skate should be answered with the above information. Case study. This ideas here are somewhat advanced above and beyond case study to more towards bigger study. We have over 100 + test now and will retests next week again. We retest every 2 - 3 month and add than to different groups different ideas of training so we see, what training actually will create what changes to the athlete. This way we learn to understand why SmO2 is doing what we see and why tHb is doing what we see. So we hope in about 2 years to have a few hundred if not thousand test with different interventions to slowly hope we understand what we have to try to stimulate, once we know the weakness as well as the strength of an athlete. The key is not just to assess but than understanding and knowing what interventions are needed to change a limiter to an equal team ember and how to eliminate the compensator to kick in to help the limiter or how to train a system without loading an already overloaded system. example : How can I in ice hockey train enzymatic reactions for H + buffering without having to create a metabolic acidosis. Or how can I train a muscular utilization problem without pushing hard or how can I create a delivery improvement without dropping in utilization. The plan for the moment with MOXY is to learn how to integrate it sport specific for assessments. Than how to use it during a workout and finally how does the information I gain on limiter and compensator can be addressed by looking at systemic as well as local reactions. How does the Brain /CG react in all l of this. There is a major research project going on since more than a year in this direction with very great people from all over the world sponsored by a private company. So MOXY is a small but important part in this investigation and possible the public will get some info earlier or later on the results and the findings thanks for the great questions and I hope I could answer them as good as possible .
Fortiori Design LLC
Registered: 1355349061 Posts: 1,530