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juergfeldmann

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 #1 
Case study of an example  of  SmO2  much lower  after the  full workload.
This is an example  to  discuss the conclusion

MOXY webinar  2 comnclsuioo0n.jpg


The second point
SmO2 lowest  when workload  the highest ?
This is a case study  dine  In California in a seminar  in MOXY's  and Spiro Tiger  courtesy  to  Mary Ann Kelly 

Case  one.  HIIT  workout  with  squatting to failure
2 loads
squat smo2   3 loads  with unloaded  desat.jpg 

Red is the actual load so end of red the load was  zero as the athlete stopped and unloaded. 
True everybody  could argue this as we  do not see,whether the  person really stopped or whether we simply decide  to make the red area there.

That's when I ask  for the csv  files and  look as well at tHb reaction.

What would you expect tHb  will do , if the end  was in fact at the red zone.
 What  will or could tHB  show if  it was NOT  at the red  zone ?

Here the  tHb and SmO2  graph

squat smo2 thb  3 loads  with unloaded  desat.jpg

Now  squatting both legs  with weights  includes a relative  big  muscle mass and as  such there will be a big O2  turn over including a  relative intense  CO2  production. ( By the  way  what  could the lactate be  immediately after the load  and what  is it 3 - 5 min later ?
 Now below  form the same case study a closer  look what happens if  we  involved a much smaller muscle group like  just some  above delta lifts ( military press) to  failure.

thb smo2 all three delta J.jpg 
So here you can see , that the lowest  SmO2  in fact is  where we  had  possibly the highest  load.
 This type of case studies  are fun to  do when  you involve a SEMG  as well .

Question. What is the difference in " Blood volume (  flow )   between this  two  loads , leg versus  delta muscles.
 Look at tHb  trends.


fitbyfred

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Posts: 168
 #2 
Juerg, hi. Nice info, thx.

The difference with the THb trends are: 

For delt muscle: THb = outflow trends, squashing the blood out of the compartment

For quad muscle: THb = pooling trends, venous outflow restriction. 

Because you zoom in with your excel sheet these trends appear much more obvious. For live workouts using Peripedal, the trends may not be as extremely presented or obvious ? 

FBF
juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #3 
The  top  one  with the  delayed SmO2  reaction  is the squatting , the bottom one is  delta lifts. I will dig out  the peripedal  from any of this  workouts  to show  that yes you can se it as easy in peripedal  whine you make a 3 min roll over screen shot s it than is  s big and easy to e as it  actually happens.  To  your  explanation I am not sure, whether I  read it correctly but will have to take  more time  as I am between clients  here.  Perhaps  some other readers  can make an interpretation as wlel with different work  ding. I think the key is  to  use similar  words  for  similar tends  and e  may need some  suggestions  or   we go back to the terminology. I will be back and will name  it he  way I use  i  with our strident  to have a common language  when we discuss options.
Thank you as usual  for the feedback. I  work  with my daughter    on a   script  for physio therapist on  using  BFR  ideas   the  way we do it   here. May use  some of the script  on here.
fitbyfred

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Posts: 168
 #4 
Juerg, hi. Yes that makes much more sense and parallels the reactions I usually see with the lower extremity, especially with squat loading. 

Looking forward to seeing your follow up on BFR. 

FBF
juergfeldmann

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Posts: 1,501
 #5 
Thanks Fred for the feedback.
 The 2  example . Squatting and delta lifts  are  perfect examples, how the  %  of total muscle mass will create eitehr a more  systemic  reactions for the %  of leg muscles  the  O2  utilization  creates a big enough CO2  production, that without  help of  respiration  the  O2  disscuvre  can not be balanced. Where as in the small muscle mass   in delta lifts  you do not have this  problem.

So what you see above  are  not  manipulated  real   situation naturally occurring in  at least this athlete.

 That means a  squatting in this form  will stimulate a   deoxygention reaction in his  or her legs  due to the O2  disscurve shift  and in the arms  not   as much.
 Now  the next task  for our   high school students is  to create a situation, where the legs  do not get this stimulation as the utilization may already have reached  maximal  performance  so we  like to change the training idea., but we  do not like to reduce  the SEMG pattern  so we work  with the same load  or even more.
 On the otehr side we like to stimulate in the  delta muscle a better  desaturation   and as we already  go  with full weight  the  question here is  how  do we desaturate  further.
  This is all about physiological  workouts  and   the performance  as  such  has very little to do , when we  make a  goal like that.
 I will show  this week a strength workout to   explain, how performance  as a guide  for workouts   has a  limited  effect  as the physiology will decide, whether you can perform  a  for exampel biceps  curl  and not the performance.

BFR. this is a fascinating  topic  as  BFR  is used  since  over 50 years  in rehabilitation   but with much more care  as we see it now in the mainstream fitness world.  There are some   major  risks  and problems  involved  when we  not  control whether we really have a venous occlusion only  and  when using  %  of maximal 1  REP  weight  we may  be far of the  optimal target. So  for me it is   very surprising  that we did not have  more discussion and positive critical response  on the BFR  webinar.
 Same actually in general . You can see the  discussion  section for  MOXY  center shows  ZERO interest  so either  every body  with  exception fo me knows  everything and no questions  or   many  simply cook in their  own " secret " kitchen  . Not really the original idea of a  open discussion forum  but ????
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