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Development Team Member
Posts: 219

What do you think? it could be modified so it can be put in a camelbak whilst on a turbo trainer.



Development Team Member
Posts: 1,501
Thanks  and it  fits  nicely in the   paper bag discussion  and SpO2  lowest level.

So  first  as  so fifteen nothing new  here just  nicely   new  packed. There was a  while back another  company  who created  the  Go  Altitude . Same idea same principle same risk  same  questions.

Questions  we  have to ask :
1. Who  actually really benefits   from a higher O2  transport capacity.

2.People  who  own  an equipment like this   have   a  drive to use it often.
 a)  because one  you open  the CO2  filter  he will degrade  slowly as it is  exposed  even if not used  to CO2   filtration. So  you will have to use  it   for the money you pay.

b)  chronic   us e or exposure  to altitude  will actually  do the opposite of  what we may have  hoped. it will decreases the mitochondrial content of muscle fibres. ( seen in nice studies  on   people     like Sherpas  or   athletes  using  altitude  too often  for   training ideas. You may as well  over time loose mussel mass. This reactions  fit  nicely in the  whole idea  of  survival  mode.  This reactions is one of the reason  we started   in the late  1980  when I worked  in St. Moritz  in the  high altitude  center   with the idea of  finding limiter  or  reasons  why some respond  and some not.   

3. You can see  why in this use you can drop SpO2  to 80 % as they  filter out  CO2  But  this  filters have a   limited  optimal  function. If  they start to loose  the  ability to filter out  CO2   you  do not see that  in the SpO2   reaction. True  they will change  color  but  how  pink  doe they have to be  to be how much effective. ?
 I  got nearly  dragged into a  court  case    in the   time of  some olympic  games , as I got a  desperate  phone  call from a  hospital  from an olympic athlete    asking me about  my opinion,  why  she / he   had  those  incredible reaction after   simulated  altitude training    with a specific  device  ending in  emergency  and intensive  care  due to  loss of  sensation and some major  neurological signs. No body really could  find a  reason  and I  talked  with the intensive  care  doctor  to explain  what  may have happend.
 You  can end the story   and    where the problem is. Filter cost money  and    we do not have a   way of  actually  telling based on SpO2  the  level of  CO2.  There are  equipment  where we  actually  have  a O2  sensor  telling you the  level of  O2  but again   little feedback on CO2.
 We  used than  the   equipment  with a  combination of  the Portamon  and  where looking  at possible  tHB reactions . Why.
 So   you  need to have  more money to be  save.

We use  another  equipment  for   Hypoxic   intermittend ideas  and   we  tested this  many many years back here in the  operation room in Quesnel.
 Dr. A  Sellar  the  leading   coach  and  brain   for the   balance point   racing group in Vernon BC  was  with us   and that's  where we   checked a  save  SpO2 level    combined  with   the level of CO2 in mmHg  we  can  allow   to not  create  some health problems .
 We  than   worked  on some internal   studies Dr,   G.Turner  from New  Zealand  who was   1 year here in town    and we  did many  great fun  studies  . So we tested  intermittent hypoxia  with  combined  hypercapnia   with blood test  for changes in red blood  cells  and EPO  and what was needed  as a minimal  stimuli. Dr. Turner gas now his   center in  the area  of  Rotorura  NZ.

Summary  look at the starting  cost , look at the  reoccurring coats. look at  what the  benefit  would be   and  than it is up  to  each of you. Hope this helps


Development Team Member
Posts: 219
Thanks Juerg, I'm glad you are on this forum to share your vast experience, it is very appreciated.


Development Team Member
Posts: 1,501
Here perhaps  some additional information.
 The idea of   altitude  often focuses on increase in  red blood cells  to help moving more O2. This   adjustment  for    structural increase in red  blood cells  till they are able to move O2  has a  certain  time  with it..As well a  certain time is non involved  when this would be  the best  O2   transport ability. This is relative individual  and  one of  the fun parts   in many  athletes  reaction after  altitude  training and needs  some  testing and try outs. NIRS  is one of the tools  to see  in a daily  short term assessment, when  this  optimal time  or  days  may  show up .
 How would we see that .?
  Now  from a  "survival " point of  view  the  time  till we have a better O2  transport  ability  is  far too slow so  we need a  faster    functional   adjustment.
  1. On  is the ability to increase  respiration.
 Now    athletes  with a  respiratory  limitation on sea level will run into some problems as   this  system now  can not be used as a compensator  anymore.  This  is one   possible reasons , why when we prepare   athletes   for  altitude  with  a   normo capnic   hyper pneo  they    feel and perform a  much better immediately  arriving  at altitude  compared  to  non respiratory trained  athletes.
 If  your  VE  is 150 l/ min  and your  maximal VE  is  170 l? min you  reach  already   on sea level  close to  VE limitation. If  they  can move  250 L /min    than  they are  far off the limitation and can sue   respiration  as a great  compensator.
 Now  this  would be immediate  functional  reaction.
 Than we have a  slightly  delayed  help  and this is often underestimate  and  very rarely mentioned 2.3  DPG increase   in the first  4 - 6  days at  altitude.   2.3  DPG  is  produced  as well in the red blood cells  but  the optimal  O2  transport is not matured  that  fast.  As a " compensator"  to  help in the short  run to  allow sufficient  O2  to be released    the body   creates  the  2.3  DPG. As  O2  transport increase  so  does  2.3  DPG production slightly  drops.
  Now  this  individual pattern  can  again   be tracked  with     NIRS. How ?  Now  the  answer  comes  with  learning NIRS interpretation. This  than leads as you can see  to  an easy  adjustment to create  physiological target training ideas.  In the  1980  we had  to  do  all  of this  with  blood tests. Now  coaches  can use  NIRS / MOXY  to create a perfect  or  nearly perfect timing. So     hypoxia  seems to be a great stimulator    for   re d blood cell  production. pH  drop  and heat a great  way  to  stimulate  2.3  DPG  released  from  the red blood cells.
 So    the key is  what is a great    altitude  or better a   needed SpO2 level.
 How  do I  do  this in a short time  to try to stimulate a  fast functional   help  and a longer term  structural help.  How  about   hypercapnic  (  high CO2  45 - 50 mmHg   EtCO2  [wink]  and a hypoxia   with about  90 +-0  %  SpO2 . We use  a  specific  equipment  for this  which originally never  was  designed or never  thought that this could actually be a great benefit.


Courtesy  of  Ceasre  and Andrea TICINO  Switzerland ) in preparation   to the Asian   champion  ship  which this athele  won.
 Now here  just a little be  of  a back  up  from a nice  idea.:

Altitude and PO2.jpg

ow you add some studies  on  2.3   DPG    protection to it.

2.3 DPG.jpg 

Now  you can go  higher   is it better ?

2.3 DPG 4300.jpg

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